New to long range - first rifle - few questions

[MontanaRifleman]

Here's what Kirby Allen and Shawn Carlock and a guy who used to be a Remmy repair station have to say about the extractor subject.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f26/remington-700-broker-extractor-18294/

 

[MudRunner2005]

Not that I don't believe people, but it is the intro-net, so I take it with a grain of salt and a bucket of BS. Sadly, honesty has almost become a thing of the past, and overexaggeration and lies have taken its place. And the internet is slap full of it.

Mix that with my good fortune with rifles (other than the ones getting stolen, and my Accumark issues), and it just reaffirms things in my mind. I do accept that 700's are far from perfect in stock form, it's just hard to imagine that with as many 700's in large calibers and heavy bolt lifting loads that I have, that one would think I should have had an issue by now (knock on wood). But I could just be incredibly lucky, but based on just about everything else in my life, I doubt that. LOL

So, I hope people don't take offense to my disbelief that every 700 issue was truly as bad and death-defying as the way it's portrayed, and listening to people b*tch constantly about how they're all crap, it's just hard for ME to believe with the track record of 700's I own and have been around. I hate Savage rifles, but I won't say they're junk, they're just not my cup of tea. I do talk alot of crap about my Accumark issues. The reason being is because I think everything about that situation could have been avoided if #1) the manufacturer hadn't tried to cheap-out and use junk parts #2) quality control had been doing their job and #3) if someone had tried to wipe out the barrel with a jag and patch before boxing it up...Which (in my mind) should be common practice with a semi-custom hand-made rifle. So yes, I am pretty chapped about that one still, so I do tend to complain about it alot. But while I would love to deter sales bad enough till Weatherby does something about it...My main goal by bringing it up, is so people will be educated on their purchase and can know what to look for before getting screwed like I did.

 

[WildRose]

I've yet to see any factual information supporting the benefits of barrel break-in and/or cleaning after every shot... People swear by it and others ignore it.



While I would tend to agree, the 700 action is perfectly fine. And I'm not too sure about the Howa/M70 having better receivers/bolt/extractors either. There's a reason a lot of guys build off the 700 action and significantly fewer guys choose the Howa/M70 to build off of...

The claw type extractor is definitely superior to the remington extractor which is why so many customs will have a SAKO or M16 extractor added.

You will never see a failure of the claw type extractor unless the case is stuck so badly it has to be hammered out unless someone has bent the hell out of the extractor with a screw driver or other wise.

The reason the 700 is so popular just goes back to the marketing of the sixties, seventies, and eighties and a couple of really bone headed decisions by Winchester in the sixties, namely trying to save money by going to a bolt without the claw type extractor.

Gunsmiths prefer the 700 action largely because that's what most are trained on and have their equipment set up for along with not having to cut the big extractor notch in the barrel for the claw type extractor.

I own almost as many 700's as I do M70's and given a choice I'll pick up an M70 every time.

You also have a much better factory trigger with the M70 than Any of the Remingtons that have been produced in the modern era along with the 3 position safety which is also superior to Remington's.

I find the modern controlled round feed to be superior to the push feed as well for a number of reasons not the least of which is that the round enters the chamber in exactly the same manner every time.

I also very much prefer the integral recoil lug built into the M70 vs the Remington style.

Lastly the Remington has the advantage of vast aftermarket parts availability which is good until you look at why that aftermarket exists. It exists because there is so much that can be improved upon over the factory original parts.

 

[WildRose]

There are many threads on break-in. Google them and and have a good read. The idea behind break-in is to condition your bore for minimal fouling. You need to remove ALL the copper after each to do this. The idea is to wear down the tooling irregularities in the throat and bore that pull off and collect copper. Any shot after the first shot before cleaning is basically wasted as it will accomplish very little or nothing.

There are also many threads on cleaning. Get some Bore Tech Eliminator and proof positive jags. Wipeout is good too.

Shoot it with the Houge and see how it does. It might shoot OK. But I do recommend an upgrade when you can budget it.

A long time. You might want to replace it if you're not getting good accuracy and/or a lot of fouling. All the remington barrels I've had have been big foulers. You might get lucky and get a good one.

I highly recommend a Vortex Viper and low Vortex rings. I also highly recommend the EGW heavy dute rail. I wouldn't go any cheaper on rings and rail then that.

Get a Vanguard, Howa or M70. Better receiver, bolt/extractor and trigger.

Good advice. Do your break in properly and you will have far fewer issues in the future with copper and carbon fouling.

There are a number of good ways to do it and probably the best is to go to any of the custom barrel mfg's and follow whatever break in procedure they recommend which may vary from one to the next but they would not suggest it if they saw no benefit from it.

"Just shoot it" is not advice I'd follow.

 

[olsingleshot]

Welcome to long range shooting. First the jury is still out about barrel break in. The method you mention will reduce copper and powder fouling, like seasoning a cast iron fry pan. Will it help accuracy, no one knows for sure. But it does make cleaning easier. You can over clean a barrel if it is not done properly. I clean after every shooting session. The Otis kit is great for field use, but buy a one peice coated rod for home and range. The .308 is not a barrel burner and should last a very long time. The Hogue stock is a good stock with the aluminum bed. To get the best out of it, bed the recoil lug. I use them a lot. Scope height is a personal matter. As long as the scope does not touch the barrel. Personal fit is how you mount the rifle to your shoulder and is what is comfortable for you.

 

[Clever]

I Started with a bone stock rifle:
Remington 700 SPS Synthetic VAR 308
Barrel: 26" Factory Remington with a 1:12 Twist
Trigger: Factory X Mark Pro it was 6lbs or so
Stock: Factory Plastic in Black, Maybe Synthetic

Upgraded:
1. Jewel Trigger with Safety set at 3.0lbs BROKE LIKE GLASS
2. Callahan Aluminum alloy firing pin with shroud and spring
3. H&S Precision aluminum bedded short action Varmint barrel Stock Black.
I glass bedded the recoil lug, because I might know a few things.
4. H&S Precision Trigger Guard with Detachable 10 RD Magazine
5. Leupold Mark 4 one piece 20MOA base
6. Leupold Mark 4 30mm high Rings
7. Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14x50mm LR/T Mil Dot 30mm Riflescope
8. Harris Bi Pod
9. Karsten adjustable Cheek Riser
Torque procedure: H&S Stock at 65 inch-lbs, Scope Base at 30 inch-lbs, Scope Rings at 20 inch-lbs, Windage Screws at 40 inch-lbs.
No Gunsmith. Just followed Manufacturer instructions or Installation Guide.
I did manage to shoot a 36"X36" Metal Plate at 1000 Yards on September 14, 2008 at Hollands Camp in The Mojave Dessert,California. Landing 5 out of 10 shots with Mr. Krell on the spotting scope.

 

[roninflag]

follow the break in on riflemanjournal.

 

[jdk81]

Thanks for the responses! Some barrel break in will be done, I will check some custom barrel makers advice for sure. I also ordered a Tipton carbon rod, brush and jag set, and guide.

Thanks!