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New Software Development Request

I knew it would turn into a LB Schmoozle-fest....
Didn't I call it??
Every forum has their biases. LB at LRH, merely amounts to US Optics at SH..

I used Exbal for years and certainly felt like I got my money's worth. It is very practical for field use.
I do have many other ballistic programs, including LB.
But IMO, the Bryan Litz calculator approach(MOBALL) is both practical and as accurate as any today. So that's my choice for the field. Sorry LB. Too convoluted..
MOBALL

You called it!!! I think if you polled the forum though you would find more guys migrating to the programs that run on the newer platforms like the Iphone and Android. Boss's criteria is more involved than just a simple dial up and windage, if LB didn't come so dang close to fitting his criteria I wouldn't have brought it up because of what it turns into. Why suggest something that won't even come close to what he is looking for, Exbal would not fit what he had in his list so I wouldn't recommend it, Moball won't fit either so why suggest it? LB is so close it hurts so I brought it up, despite my better judgment :rolleyes:
 
I knew it would turn into a LB Schmoozle-fest....
Didn't I call it??

Unless other's preferences are grating like fingernails down the chalk board, the observation of a "schmoozle-fest" is pretty much irrelevant to the goals of the OP.

Members are going to identify what they know. What they know best is generally the same as what they prefer, select, and use. I own and use LoadBase, and I can state from the position of ownership and use, that it provides the majority of the criteria Boss Hoss established in the OP.

I can't state LoadBase is better than all the other ballistic software available for Boss Hoss or even for me, because I haven't researched or used the other ballistic software to the extent that I've used LoadBase.

In your experience and opinion, does MOBALL better provide/meet/satisfy the criteria Boss-Hoss identified as desired? Exbal? Or any of the others you've used over the years?
 
Sorry,
Mikecr and bigngreen already articulated my primary point while I was thinking/typing.
 
To All,

Not too long ago, there were no ballistics programs available to civilians that would calculate spin drift and Coriolis; and just in a few months, all the sudden you find them in different flavors. Most programs were for G1 and even some would have the ability to convert to G7 and other G's though the BC's available were for G1. With the introduction of Brian Litz's book and his great contribution of BC values for G7 it marked a place in history of ballistics. G1's BC's are velocity dependent and that's the reason that Sierra bullets gives banded BC's. Meaning different BC's for different ranges of velocities, still is not as accurate as using G7 BC's which are not velocity dependent and will provide much more accurate predictions for long ranges specially those approaching subsonic velocities. G7 will give you more accurate velocity predictions which is extremely important to mark your range limits to remain within supersonic bullet speeds.
Any ballistic program today worth anything would have to give you the ability to use G7 BC's since it would just be the way to go if you're using any ballistic program with the exception of Load Base 3.0 which, I don't know how, will give you amazingly accurate values with either G1 or G7. ***Read on the link posted above***
Bryan Litz's Ballistic Book, also sold here at LRH, really is an eye opener. I do highly recommend it.
Exbal has simply let technology catch up and pass it. What it was it is not any more. It needs a major overhaul... Needs a practical way to use spin drift and coriolis effect corrections as well as allowing the user to use BC's based on G7.
If you read some of my posts on trying to help some folks that were using Exbal incorrectly you will find out I know the program very well. Many of you know I know LoadBase fairly well. I presently own more than 5 ballistic programs and have run more than a 1-1/2 dozen of them through out the years; it's just a decease I have. Bottom line, I'm not ignorant when it comes to ballistic programs and that's the reason I feel I help people by recommending what I have found to suit my needs and more likely any one else's needs since you can only use that which is applicable to your needs.
I kind of see Phorwath in the middle of all this evolution with his post about his rifle shooting right at 1000 yards; back then, not that long ago, you could not find programs with spin drift correction and coriolis effect corrections. Period.... Then it was blooming and phorwath, bigngreen and others, if I remember right, including my self, were very happy about it.
Finally, remember this, when you compare ballistic programs, always use the same values for the applications being compared. If you don't do that, your comparison is worth nothing! Just flat down worthless!

Load Base 3.0 won't let you down!

With a big friendly smile, :D , Eaglet.
 
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3 different wind brackets means little unless you have an anemometer in 3 different locations, and even this means nothing unless the wind is constant.... instead of making one guess, your simply making 3 guesses...

the last 1/3 of the trajectory is by far the most important and is the part you can never measure, you are required to guess. This is why i dont own a kestrel, measuring the wind where your shooting from doesnt help me... I have far more success via reading the terrain, guessing the wind by observation, and practice practice practice. Gadgets and software wont help you here...
 
3 different wind brackets means little unless you have an anemometer in 3 different locations, and even this means nothing unless the wind is constant.... instead of making one guess, your simply making 3 guesses...

the last 1/3 of the trajectory is by far the most important and is the part you can never measure, you are required to guess. This is why i dont own a kestrel, measuring the wind where your shooting from doesnt help me... I have far more success via reading the terrain, guessing the wind by observation, and practice practice practice. Gadgets and software wont help you here...

I would partially agree with the idea that reading terrain and practice is highly important. This is the exact reason I have started to use the multiple wind zones, I many places I shoot I will be shooting through three different air flows. The first is at the shooter and I can read directly and this value is generally good to just past the terrain change in the canyon or draw then in the center there is an acceleration and I usually run a number about double what the reading at the shooter is then the last is easier to read because there is terrain to see and I usually use a value near what I use at he shooters position.

Another example that I'm just getting into is that the canyons I shoot in always have air moving in the center of them, I can read nearly a zero wind condition on both sides but there will be a 2.5-3 MPH movement in the center just from the air settling in the morning or evening.

Using the gadgets and wind meter have substantially helped my wind reading, which has a long way to go but at least I can shoot and quantify what went wrong and re-read the conditions so I can put values to what I'm seeing, for me this works in my brain, if I go out and just guess the value I'm constantly low.

If your wind reading skill are sharp at all it should be no problem to use multiple winds in a BR situation with flags and good wind data.


Reliance on gadgets will lead to an epic failure but combine the gadgets with good wind reading and good shooting and you then extend your cold bore range and effectiveness.
 
I recently entered the coriolis effect into a conversation with, one of, if not the most respected long range hunters/shooters on this forum. The laughter on the other end of the phone told me the story. I guess I don't need to enter that into my program anymore.. :rolleyes:

It is common among the guys that are successful at shooting past 1000 and even 1500 and beyond, that the minute effect is not something the shooter and rifle and be consistant enough to actually realize. Most that use this in their equaion, if not all, simply confuse it with a wind that they were not aware of in their calculation.


When the topic of spin drift comes up, it is addressed as something that is different with each rifle combination and may or may not be there in your rifle/bullet combination. Again, it is easily confused with a light or variabe wind that may or may not be present or detectable at the time the shot is fired.

One thing the 100's of rounds I have fired in the last few months at 1000 plus has taught me is. You may think you have a " no wind" situation but if your bullets are going 60 feet or more above line of sight how can you tell?? The only way I know is a early morning rising or hanging fog. So, when you go to enter that middle range wind from a wind flag or what ever I wish you all luck.

You can buy 5 or 500 ballistic programs and study them on your computer till you are crosseyed. But the fact is, if you enter the same data into the programs and get several different elevation and windage corrections. The one that is correct will most likely be the one that fell into the wind you really had at the time the shot was fired, whether or not you even knew it existed.

Bottom line.... Get your program of choice, go shoot as much as you can. Take some notes and learn by doing it. Simply , turn off the PC and go do it. Then you will be gathering something you can use.

Love,

Jeff
 
the last 1/3 of the trajectory is by far the most important

In the context of wind's contribution toward drift, I'm pretty sure you got it backwards. Although, I'd have to look around a bit to find supporting evidence.
Drift occurs with a bullet's slowing. If the bullet did not slow from the muzzle to the target, no amount of wind would cause drift. So a wind value is applied to the time of flight difference between a bullet that hypothetically doesn't slow, and your actual time of flight. This slowing occurs at the highest rate nearest the muzzle.
For example;
In space a bullet might take 0.50 seconds to travel 1kyds.
In our atmosphere, it might take 1.00 seconds.
Any wind would apply to that 1/2sec of TOF difference.
And by far, most of that difference occurs nearest the muzzle, as a bullet slows relatively little, further downrange.
This passes test w/regard to the mechanics of drift, which holds that base drag pulls a bullet downwind while it's nose is pointing into wind.
This base drag would be highest at the highest velocity, and affect a bullet's direction earlier and therefore longer during travel.

Many point to the apparent increasing moa of drift with distance, to support a notion that drift has an increasing rate downrange, and so downrange wind must be a bigger factor.
But demonstrated drift could not be easily quantified in moa, as nothing here is linear.
It can't be suggested that 1" of drift printing at 100yds is ~1moa, because much of that deviation may have occurred between 90yds-100yds. So it could be & print 8moa further downrange, even with no wind contributing beyond 100yds. That is, if 0.8" of that 1" deviation occurred in the 10yds between 90-100.
Seems like alot for a bullet to 'steer' so fast, but consider 1kyd drifts. They don't correlate to wind speed at all.

Anyway, I'm thinkin out loud I guess.
Pretty sure near wind is a bigger factor than far wind.
 
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LoadBase Ballistic Software



Len---going to give LB a try---will give me 3 wind zones to use. How fast can you process the order? As you can tell I am very patient LOL!!! Going to go and fire form some 300 Jarrett (Speedy just finished the dies) tomorrow at the ranch and want to try this out with my 6.5x284 LV rig.

Let me know and I will enter the order in now.

Dave
 
Everyone---thanks for the input. Talked with Mr Perry yesterday and he has an additional program besides Exbal that would do part of what I wanted but not all of it. I use Exbal and like it but the LB looks to be interesting and I want to play with it and see if it works.

The one who dies with the most toys wins!!!!!
 
Cool Boss!! Make sure to let us know what you think!

Broz, you made a point that has been lurking in my mind about the height of the bullet path in the air flow. I have done some research into wind power generation for a piece of ground I want to live on and you take a wind reading at ground level then run the anemometer up a pole there is a big increase in air velocity but the good thing is the air also stabilizes, it's not as gusty or rolling the higher you get. There are some numbers that are out there that I don't have with me but there is a general percentage per foot of high that the air velocity will gain. If you can get a wind mill 30ft or higher the available wind is much greater than at 15ft, our bullets are traveling through this.

I used to think that I had "no wind conditions" but after running all over with a Kestrel I've concluded that there is no such thing in my area!
 
Cool Boss!! Make sure to let us know what you think!

Broz, you made a point that has been lurking in my mind about the height of the bullet path in the air flow. I have done some research into wind power generation for a piece of ground I want to live on and you take a wind reading at ground level then run the anemometer up a pole there is a big increase in air velocity but the good thing is the air also stabilizes, it's not as gusty or rolling the higher you get. There are some numbers that are out there that I don't have with me but there is a general percentage per foot of high that the air velocity will gain. If you can get a wind mill 30ft or higher the available wind is much greater than at 15ft, our bullets are traveling through this.

I used to think that I had "no wind conditions" but after running all over with a Kestrel I've concluded that there is no such thing in my area!



BOY DO I FEEL LIKE AN ***!!! I still want the LB ASAP (Len let me know when you see this) but called my shooting buddy at Sierra to talk to him about the bullet selection for my Silhouette Rifle Speedy brought down last week with his personal custom built Farley on it (yes I am excited to shoot it) and was shocked!

During the discussion of this thread found out that the Sierra Program has 4 wind direction nodes that can be input on any given distance. Man was I embarrassed---I have met talked to the people who developed this software at the Shot a few times and they have Dr in front of their names. I always refer to one of them as the "rocket scientist" ! This will give me 2 programs to compare---the reason I do not have the Sierra Program now is the "old version" required you to keep the cd in the machine which kills the battery quick in a lap top in the field but no more!
 
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