New Scope and New Rifle

[Lenny Foffa]

Hi, Ilike to purchase 2 or 3 bags of new Brass, from ONE company . Run them through the sizer die, and trim those that need it. Then de Burr and Chamfer the necks , then separate them by weight. If its a 270, 06, 308 etc., I separate them by 1/2 a grain. So I have 5 or 6 little plastic boxes, or Zip Lock bags . Some bags have 10 cases in them, some have 25 . No matter. The inventory in each bag will grow over time . Then I make a starting load based on the info listed in the latest Nosler and Hornady books. I stat at the lightest load. The scope gets zeroed at 100 yards , with the understanding that adjustments will need to be made as the weekly range sessions go on. Some times I bring TWO loads ( Ex 30-06 with a 165 Grn. Horn SST 55.0 Grns 4350 and 55.3 grns of 4350. ) 12 rounds of each load. 4 groups of three, keep Careful notes, save targets and tape them into your 3 ring binder for that caliber. After 5 or 6 trips to the range , you will have a load your rifle likes and one you deem suitable for the Game you are hunting. Your scope will be zeroed at 100 yards, ( Set the Zero Stop Setting if you have one) then go to the 200 yard and 300 yard range to see if your drop matches the drop the Ballistic app said it should be. Now here is where you can decide to use the Zero Stop Feature, on the elevation turret and adjust up for each range. OR, , if your drop at 200 yards is 3 inches, and that is the max you will be shooting in you aera, you may decide to just leave the Zero setting alone, and just hold over. I think it's good to practice using BOTH options if you can. I really enjoy this process!!

 

[CNY Yote Hunter]

Until recently I used to buy a few boxes of factory ammo to start. Never cheaper stuff for me, I usually try federal Gmm or Hornady match or a quality hunting round. I grab different weight projectiles and start shooting groups at 100. Won't get into Barrel break in cause we all have our own ways. Whatever weight groups the best at 100 I start with that for my loads. I usually resort to nosler reloading book cause I've had the best luck with that one, find the most accurate powder tested with that weight projectile and if it's under max load I will load some and give it a try. Don't know how new you are to reloading and don't mean to offend anyone but all the reloading manuals usually always use a 26" barrel for their tests. So if you're using a chrono don't expect the same speeds they were getting if you're setup with a hunting rig and a 20-24" barrel or less. As of recently and for the first time ever due to the collecting of information in NYS I resorted to reading through forums on specific rifle/ caliber reloading info and seeing what was working for others. Went to the load manuals to make sure it was safe to start with and if not start at a safe charge and work up to theirs if needed and no signs of pressure such as hard bolt lift, primers flattened and the other all to familiar signs happen. Best of luck on the new rifle!! Nothing better than just starting or adding on to the collection! One of the factory ammos I forgot to mention that is cheap but has also made some of my hand loads look embarrassing is federal fusion. That stuff when tried had been outstanding in the accuracy department and very hard to beat

 

[264MHC]

My standard procedure is to load up 20 or so cheaper bullets in the same weight class as I plan to shoot at a starting load. I then will load up 10 each of different powder and or bullet combos in .5 grain increments for finding pressure. The 20 initial rounds are used for break in and getting the first firing on the brass, and if I have 3 different bullet powder combos, that gives me 30 more pieces of fire formed brass and a rough idea of where my powder charge needs to be. From there I can fine tune powder charge and seating depth with my 50 fire formed pieces of brass and the bullets I plan to use in a now broken in barrel. At that point I will typically load 5 or so of that initial starting load in virgin brass before every subsequent range trip to eventually have all 100 pieces fire formed, and those 5 are used for foulers/sighters when changing distance or if I start with a clean barrel to have it fouled the same way for each round of load development. Even with different velocity and/or different bullets, they are usually close enough to get me on target before shooting my load development rounds. Final sight in is of course done with the fully developed load before hunting, and I leave the barrel just slightly fouled during the season so I know my POI vs POA will remain the same. This is what works for me.

 

[2ndhandrifles]

I buy quality factory ammo loaded with bullets I intend to reload with when possible. I recently purchased a Tikka T3 in 6.5 PRC and topped it with a Vortex Razor HD LHT 3-15x42. Ammo: Norma w/ 143gr Bondstrike, Hornady Precision Hunter w/ 143gr ELD-X, Nosler w/ 140gr AB, and I just found Choice Ammunition - hand loaded with Peterson Brass and 142gr Nosler ABLR.

I've sighted it in with the Norma ammo and it does very well, rings 8" steel at 540 yds. Still need to test the others.

My thoughts, if you test with crappy ammo or start your reloads with cheap / crappy components you'll get crappy results. I use the higher end factory stuff to see which hunting bullet the rifle seems to favor and then develop my own loads based off of the factory ammo......bullet & overall case length. This also gives me a factory ammo to fall back on if say reloading supplies become impossible to find again.

 

[Dentite]

It only takes me 2-3 rounds to zero scope close enough to evaluate groups/test loads at 100 yards. I don't want my impacts to be exactly at point of aim anyway (I prefer 2-3" off so I have clean target aim point every shot). So I load 5 sighters to zero scope. Nearly all my rifles have never seen factory ammo.

Once I settle on a load, I adjust it a bit so POA is POI (usually at 200 yards for most big game rifles).

 

[floyd kittrell]

I neglected to mention that. I do that as well. I make up 3-5 extras for site in.

X2

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

Well for me I can tell you what I just did as I just recently purchased and new rifle and scope. Don't know if this is right or wrong but it's what I did.
New rifle was a MPA BA PMR PRO IN 6MM Creedmoor and scope is the Sightron SVIII 5x40x56
I went the route of factory ammo (quality) Hornady match, barns 112 otm stuff and blackhills with 108 ELDM. I ended up buying about 6 boxes of factory fodder. I am 100 rounds through so far and did barrel break in complete.
I am now really just having fun enjoying this rifle ATM. I am getting a reloading bench built in our new house so reloading is on hold but I bought a lot of components for when I am ready.
All I know is that none of my factory offerings have ever gone over 1". Most .4 to .7 range. This rifle is a freaking Hammer. I can only guess what reloads will do.
But that is what I did with this rifle. Right or wrong I am having fun. You do the same. Enjoy the new girl

 

[blvette75]

Hi Guys,

I have a question and would like to see some responses, what do you do when you have a new scope and Rifle with regards to load development?

So first time mounting Scope on new Rifle, how do you start a load ? that also needs to sight in the scope? Do you use factory ammo or do you load a certain safe start load from reloading data of company?

just for interest sake I have always wondered what people do in these circumstances.

I agree with others here, I typically buy factory ammunition or if it is a caliber I already have maybe shoot reloads that shot well on the other rifle with the same caliber. Then use factory brass for my reloads. One rifle I had during initial break-in, ran out of factory ammo and used reloads from another rifle of same caliber and had an instant 0.5 inch groupings, which saved load development time. Be careful have had instances where cheaper factory ammo in a rifle would not group at all under 3-4 inches, went to another factory manufacturer and ammo and rifle grouped well 1" to 1.5", same bullet weight. On using reloads another issue have had is neck-sized fire formed brass reloaded from one rifle will not chamber in a new rifle of same caliber, bolt gun to a semi-auto.

For sight-in if my new scope/rifle combination are not getting zeroed in. I have an old scope/rings combination retired from hunting (Never take it apart) that I know has held zero on magnum caliber rifles and pop it on the new rifle, that will allow me to trouble shoot, if the problem is the scope and rings/mount, or the rifle. Typically in the past always a rings mounted to the scope issue, couple of cases of bad scope. Zero cases where it was the rifle (knock on wood). I now make sure either I lap rings or buy a matched set, or a SPUHR mount. Have fun.

 

[blvette75]

It depends, allot of new are weatherby's and the factory ammo (IMO) isn't to shabby so if I have a load I like shoots good, I don't get crazy on components. They aren't cheap to load for either.

Example - factory 6.5rpm and 6.5-300 i purchased 130 scirocco's and they shoot very well in both my backcountries. That's what i would load 130 class fast bullets - so why bother. I purchased a couple hundred rounds of each. Crono the ammo and order my cds dial and I'm ready. Just me - i don't have to make loads for everything. But if i want to I'll do what has been previously stated - get good brass cheap ammo (if there's such a thing these days - lol) and roll your own later.

I take it you own both 6.5 RPM and 6.5-300 Weatherbys'. Why both calibers? Which do you prefer, for a high mountain gun? I was looking at the 6.5-300 but have been thinking going to 7mm Weatherby, but have seen Weatherby only has the 280 Ackley improved in the backcountry. I am getting older now lugging around 11.5 lbs in the mountains isn't something I want to do anymore.

 

[Pdyson]

Lots of good advice here I'll add my 2-cents.
It's a good idea to break the rifle in with factory ammo but if you plan on reusing the brass, get the good stuff. Depending on how much you plan to shoot the rifle, It would also be a good idea to buy 5 to 10 boxes of the same lot.
Unless it's just an awesome out of the box shooter with a premium lapped barrel. I'd go with inexpensive bullets and primer combos till you get at least 200 rounds on the barrel. Then begin your load development.
I was ready to sell my new 6 arc bolt gun because of wild flyers and extremely bad cold bore shots often over an inch away from the rest of the group. It didn't settle down till I had almost 400 rounds through it. It's a dependable tack driver now I'm taking it to it's first match next Saturday…wish me luck

 

[David_h]

I pretty much use reloads from the start. I get decent brass and for the first 50 rounds or so, I might use up some bullets and/or powder that I have no current plans for. After the brass is fired and sized I start to dial in load with desired bullet and powder.

For me, the optics has no bearing on load development.

 

[SSG Graybush]

Hi Guys,

I have a question and would like to see some responses, what do you do when you have a new scope and Rifle with regards to load development?

So first time mounting Scope on new Rifle, how do you start a load ? that also needs to sight in the scope? Do you use factory ammo or do you load a certain safe start load from reloading data of company?

just for interest sake I have always wondered what people do in these circumstances.

Your really asking 2 questions, 1st, how to zero and 2nd, how to do load development.
Insure weapons unloaded.
1) zero new set up- remove bolt or BCG and lower in AR's. Do a bore sight at 100 yards by placing weapon on bags, look through bore and center target in the bore, then without moving rifle adjust sights/crosshairs to target. This usually takes going back and forth several times. Then place a clay pigeon on the back stop, with a spotter fire a round, see impact, put sights/crosshairs back on clay, without moving Rifle move sights/crosshairs to the impact, then fire again and repeat till clay is broke, move to paper and repeat till zero is correct.
2) load development- research a bit, find powder and bullet combo you want.
2 things make a good load, sub moa(really sub half moa) and a ES of less then 15 fps. I call charge weight the speed node and seating depth the accuracy node.
To start you must make your best guess at the starting cbto or coal/bullet seating depth. I've found from my experience, for Hornady and Nosler try 15 thou jump, for Barnes try 50 thou and Berger 70 thou. Jamming the lands by 10+ thou does easily find ok moa but I've never found it to be the best. And I don't do it. And I don't want the pressure spike, especially when I don't know where max is yet.
Do a 1 or 2 round per charge weight ladder test at .2 gr increments. Your finding 2 things, MAX LOAD( the first signs of over pressure) and a SPEED NODE. A good speed node is where there's a ES of 15 fps or less across at least .6 grs of powder.
I start at 1.6 to 2 grs below max, but you should start at minimum till you have some experience. So if the manual says 50.0 is max. I would load 48.0,48.2, 48.4,48.6,48.8,49.0,49.2,49.4,49.6,49.8, and 50 grs, 2 rounds of each charge weight. Shoot the ladder, and write down the speeds. Say 49.0 to 49.6 is within spec of <15 fps ES. Load 49.3 (the middle of the node) again and confirm it. BUT if at 50.0 grs there was pressure signs you can continue higher, especially if your starting to see a good node. Just remember when development is done in the cold of winter it maybe over pressure in the heat of summer.
Then with that charge weight you just found, find your ACCURACY NODE, sub moa or half moa by testing seating depths. A good accuracy node is at least 5 thou across or bigger, bigger is better. This gives you wiggle room when loading cuz ogives are not always consistent. Anyway, say am loading Bergers, I start at 70 thou jump and work out in both directions. I'd load (3) rds each at 60, 65, 70, 75 and 80 thou jump. So if 70 thou is best, I'd load from there again at 1 or 2 thou increments to see how big the node is and confirm exactly where the node begins and ends. If at least 5 thou across it is good to go.
But when you change jump it can screw up your ES, and when you change charge weight it can screw up your accuracy, so you have to go back and forth and adjust. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it sucks. This is my way, not the way. But I have several rifles that are sub half moa with a ES <15 fps that preform well at 1000 yards. I don't neck turn, but do use some bushing dies, and recommend you use Redding dies. I don't recommend Hornady or Lee dies, except the Lee factory crimp die, but only if the cartridge absolutely needs a crimp. Otherwise never crimp and never use a seating dies roll crimp. Imo.
One last tid bit, I only load develop with a know good scope when at all possible. Find the load and then mount the new scope, you don't want to waste expensive components only to find out the new scope wasn't holding zero.
Edit: one last thing again, barrels speed up after 50 to 150 rounds, sometimes not much, sometimes 150+ fps. So this can effect your load. So you may just want to zero, plink to 150 rds, and then do your load development.

 

[cdherman]

For me, it really depends on the circumstances, but I have come to realize, that I don't have much use for factory brass once I've fired it once. There are some small exceptions like buying factory 308 ammo, and then using the brass for my AR10, where on the second loading if the brass flies and I don't find it, I'm not heart-broken.

Most of the time, I use custom brass, and components to make the first shots out of the gun. I start with a very mild load that I nail down based on book numbers, trusted sites/people, and back it down a grain or so, depending on the source and exact match to what I am doing (Gun, Powder, bullet, seating depth, etc).

One advantage I have found to that method, as I did on my recent load development for a 300 WSM hunting rifle. I worked up a generic 'mild load' based on info from various sources, and low and behold, I found a load that the rifle liked with excellent velocity, excellent accuracy, and all within about 30 shots. I was using a premium bullet, so it saved me a bunch of money, time and powder, not to mention, I didn't have to spend $75/box x2 for factory that I have no intention on using on the hunt.

I think that as you gain confidence in your loading skills, shooting reloads out of your rifle as the first rounds through it is not just possible, but practical, and economic.

I am totally with Bang4the Buck. I get how impatient you might be to want to go buy a box of factory ammo. Don't do it if you are a reloader. Buy a 100 minimum, better yet 200 rounds of the best unfired brass you can find/afford. You are going to be breaking in that barrel with meaningless shots anyhow -- may as well have one of them at 25 yards, 2 at 50 etc etc.

I tend to find some lot of bullets that never got happy in another gun for break in. Ditto powder. Something no other gun loves, but the reloading manual has load data for it. Barrels are not ready for your expensive components for the first 20-50 rounds (a hand lapped, cut rifling will be faster, a Savage might need 200 rounds.)

added bonus using your eventual reloading brass -- you will have once fired brass to work with. I get my best accuracy with once fired brass, fully prepped but just shoulder bumped back when resized. Its a bonus to break in with my long term brass.

 

[Huntz]

My number one rule on sighting in a new rifle is not to use a new scope right away. Use a scope you have that you know is reliable. I keep several just for doing this. The reason is with a reliable scope you can get an idea how the rifle shoots. If you use a new scope and are having trouble sighting it one,how do you know that the scope is not at fault? You don`t. By using a tried ,reliable scope.you have eliminated that problem. If it shoots fairly good,then put your new scope on and sight it in.
I never get rid of dies or brass for cartridges I shoot. Any rifle I buy or build will be a caliber and cartridge I already have. I will use data I already have to load for a new,different rifle. Of course if you are a guy who must jump on the band wagon for every "new cartridge"that comes out you will need to buy ammo to start out with..I like to bore sight by eyeball. I seem to get on paper right away doing that.
There are several pre shooting checks I go through. #1 make sure that action does not rock in stock. If it does ,bedding will be needed. Torque action into stock. #2 clean all oil out of scope mounting holes and scope mounts. Torque scope mounts to receiver . #3 check rings alinement. I use Burris Signature rings ..#4 Torque rings to scope body.
Have at it.