New Mexico recommends NO use of scopes on muzzleloaders

[AZShooter]

A couple of things:

Smokeless powder is repeatedly mentioned. It is not allowed in NM.

We older guys that had cataract surgery usually have a replacement lens that either works for distance or close up. I opted for distance lens making irons sights a blur.

I talked to a NM Game and Fish office yesterday( 10-18-22). I was put on hold while the agent talked to someone. Was told they are waiting for finalized rules governing scopeless muzzleloaders.

Was told I could appeal to the director with documentation for some sort of waiver allowing, I am guessing, some sort of optic. The detail on what that might be is unknown at this time. Was told I would have to apply after I got the hunt permit. Would have to do it for every hunt every time. This is just a conversation. Will wait till we read something in print.

 

[Ckleeves]

New and more regulations don't fix anything but some politicians pocketbooks! Loosing elk or deer to scopes extending muzzleloaders range is ludicrous. Once they see how easy a new law was to turn sportsman against sportsman they will say umm you boys with smokeless muzzleloaders are too successful!!!! No more smokeless wait sights can be attached to regular rifles too! It's a never ending cycle!!!!!! Just my opinion. Wake Up America!!!!!!

Of course scopes are going to increase range and success it's the furthest thing from ludicrous.
Would you have open sights on your long range centerfire rifle? Of course not! Why? To increase range! Smokeless is already illegal in NM.

I'm hardly a fan of new laws most of the time but In many cases it's needed when it comes to wildlife. Technology is constantly improving for hunters but game still just has the same eyes, ears and noses they have had for eons and at a certain point it's not a level playing field.

 

[Coldfinger]

A couple of things:

Smokeless powder is repeatedly mentioned. It is not allowed in NM.

We older guys that had cataract surgery usually have a replacement lens that either works for distance or close up. I opted for distance lens making irons sights a blur.

I talked to a NM Game and Fish office yesterday( 10-18-22). I was put on hold while the agent talked to someone. Was told they are waiting for finalized rules governing scopeless muzzleloaders.

Was told I could appeal to the director with documentation for some sort of waiver allowing, I am guessing, some sort of optic. The detail on what that might be is unknown at this time. Was told I would have to apply after I got the hunt permit. Would have to do it for every hunt every time. This is just a conversation. Will wait till we read something in print

So you can appeal (beg) to the director (dictator) to use a scope. Because of laws he owns all of the wildlife in NM. Sportsman that fund everything get to beg and hope to be granted a special permit from the dictator. Same thing happened here in NY. DEC introduced crossbow season and wow did it divide bow hunters and crossbow hunters. Same ploy Divide and they will eventually fall.

 

[rellim8154]

Recently heard where New Mexico proposes a change to the muzzleloader requirements beginning in 2023. The proposed change would be to eliminate the use of scopes.

My question for those folks who hunt in states with this rule already established is will that increase the number of wounded animals? I know with my aging eyes I have a difficult time seeing clearly the rear sights on any firearm.

Please provide your opinions and experience.

Montana just started primitive muzzle loader season. Unless you have a lot of time on your hands for your load development and practice, I heard quite a few reports of wounded and missed opportunities opportunities on big game. Some of the reasons that have been stated when it comes to advanced technology is it would alter the scoring systems for rifle/archery. Example: Is the garmin range finding sights for archery. It's too bad they can't just make a new category. Some people have the opportunity to shoot everyday is a some of us work from sun up to sun down.

 

[WildRose]

Of course scopes are going to increase range and success it's the furthest thing from ludicrous.
Would you have open sights on your long range centerfire rifle? Of course not! Why? To increase range! Smokeless is already illegal in NM.

I'm hardly a fan of new laws most of the time but In many cases it's needed when it comes to wildlife. Technology is constantly improving for hunters but game still just has the same eyes, ears and noses they have had for eons and at a certain point it's not a level playing field.

I can't see how the animals benefit from more of them being wounded and lost which is the inevitable result.

 

[WildRose]

So you can appeal (beg) to the director (dictator) to use a scope. Because of laws he owns all of the wildlife in NM. Sportsman that fund everything get to beg and hope to be granted a special permit from the dictator. Same thing happened here in NY. DEC introduced crossbow season and wow did it divide bow hunters and crossbow hunters. Same ploy Divide and they will eventually fall.

Don't worry, being it's NM they'll probably have even more restrictive regulations for out of state hunters.

Look at what MT did a few years ago with their points system. ...

 

[Garry J]

Matchlock do we need to say anything more !

 

[tim_w]

Just remember NM could have just as easily reduced tag numbers for ML but they care more about revenue funding which is not surprising.

They could have restricted it to just magnified optics and that would have taken care of any vision issues. The non magnified optics addresses most everything. It limits distance, addresses 99% of vision issues (old eyes), it prevents aiming accuracy issues of irons, lowers unrecoverable.

According to them limiting distance is the goal to increase herd grown and health.

 

[Rick Richard]

Update

I just spoke to a NM representative form Game and Fish where she told me only "Iron Sights" will be allowed on muzzleloaders. She specifically told me no use of "Red Dot" sights or any other optics other than iron sights will be allowed. Oh well.

 

[philipbrousseau]

Better to limit tags than have lost animals due to equipment restrictions.

 

[Muddyboots]

The energy generated by 3 pellet or BH209, or Pyrodex, ML with standard 250 gr sabot CANNOT effectively kill at the ranges NM claims which is crux of problem. Anyone shooting beyond the energy and bullet's minimal velocity expansion is no different than centerfire. The problem I see is lack of really good information printed with ML bullets that clearly state bullet performance limitations. When a LRH shooter evaluates a bullet, we look at minimal velocity for proper expansion.

Powerbelt ELR for example talks about "long range" but does not provide any minimal expansion velocity parameters.

Hornady also states effective at longer ranges without minimal expansion velocity parameters.

IMO, ML bullet manufacturer's have some responsibility to include some guidance to help provide a basic understanding their bullet performance limitations.