New Mexico recommends NO use of scopes on muzzleloaders

[Rick Richard]

Recently heard where New Mexico proposes a change to the muzzleloader requirements beginning in 2023. The proposed change would be to eliminate the use of scopes.

My question for those folks who hunt in states with this rule already established is will that increase the number of wounded animals? I know with my aging eyes I have a difficult time seeing clearly the rear sights on any firearm.

Please provide your opinions and experience.

 

[Ckleeves]

I'm from Colorado, so no scopes in muzzy season. I honestly think it's a good thing, at least for how our muzzy season lands in the middle of the rut (elk). At a certain point in time I feel like we are getting to good at killing critters so laws that reign things in a little aren't always a bad thing.

I understand the vision deal, my dad has been the same way for the last 20 years. I feel like maybe there should be an exception made and the option to use a zero magnification scope/red dot if you can prove vision issues.

 

[WildRose]

Recently heard where New Mexico proposes a change to the muzzleloader requirements beginning in 2023. The proposed change would be to eliminate the use of scopes.

My question for those folks who hunt in states with this rule already established is will that increase the number of wounded animals? I know with my aging eyes I have a difficult time seeing clearly the rear sights on any firearm.

Please provide your opinions and experience.

I'd be out of luck because while I still have way better than normal distance vision I can no longer see well enough up close to get a good sight picture with Irons on a rifle.

I also think it's going to result in a lot more wounded animals which is not going to be in the best interests of the population.

 

[cohunt]

If you cant see em- don't choot em!

Bow season uses open sights -- wounded numbers dont seem to be up for bow season--- I havent seen wounded numbers up for muzzy season in co either

There are different options to help--- I used a hooded front "cross hair style" front sight and adjustable peep rear-- helps me alot with my aging eyes.

In CO you can get medical waivers for zero power scopes if you can prove vision/handicap issues but its pretty stringent (as should be)

 

[WildRose]

If you cant see em- don't choot em!

Bow season uses open sights -- wounded numbers dont seem to be up for bow season--- I havent seen wounded numbers up for muzzy season in co either

There are different options to help--- I used a hooded front "cross hair style" front sight and adjustable peep rear-- helps me alot with my aging eyes.

In CO you can get medical waivers for zero power scopes if you can prove vision/handicap issues but its pretty stringent (as should be)

Having bird hunted a lot of places after bow season I highly doubt that's the case. We find carcasses all over the place that bow hunters either never realized they'd hit or lacked the the skills to track, this is on "archery only" ranches.

The problem is there's no way to quantify the numbers where there is mixed hunting because usually all that's left after God's cleanup squad gets dine is the head and axial skeleton.

 

[AZShooter]

There is an article from NM Game and Fish explaining why they are proposing this change. Will link at end.

In a nutshell the harvest of the big game animals is too high. They either reduce the number of tags or reduce the chance of success by eliminating scopes from Muzzleloaders.

Best comments from linked article:

Many people commented that it would be unfair to have one group of hunters shoulder all the burden of reducing the harvest.

"Has technology made the modern black powder rifle capable of 300-400 yard shots? In the right hands, I say a few are pulling it off. From my experience, the vast majority of animals are killed 200 and less. I see this argument as a lot of uninformed people willing to sacrifice one set of hunters for their own gain."


"I know that I won't be the only one that says 'without a scope, I won't be able to hunt with my rifles.' I use reading glasses only for reading. I can't see a rear sight on my rifles, therefore I have a scope on all of them." (I am in this category, rear sight is a blur, maybe a ghost ring would help)

I will most likely only hunt areas in NM that allow centerfire scoped rifles in future.

link:

NM Game Department Recommends Banning The Use of Scopes on Muzzleloaders For Big Game - New Mexico Wildlife Federation - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

By BEN NEARY NMWF Conservation Director New Mexico big-game hunters could no longer use scopes on muzzleloading rifles under a proposal from the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish. Stewart Liley, chief biologist with the department, briefed members of the New Mexico State Game Commission on...

nmwildlife.org

 

[FrogFire7]

I always wondered if scopes made more wounds with muzzleloaders since people can now "see" their target hundreds of yards away. Which is way farther than "most" traditional muzzleloader hunters should be taking shots. Just something I'd thought about in the past. Seems like open sights would result in shots being taken in ranges that most muzzleloaders are efficient at. If that makes sense.

We are probably a little bit different crowd than the average guy that takes his cheap-o muzzleloader and two cakes of powder and powerbelt out for elk...

 

[Mark37082]

I can see and understand both sides here. I'm definitely in the old eyes camp and struggle with seeing my rear sight.

 

[Rick Richard]

I hope they consider non magnifying optics such as red dots for us with bad eye sight.

 

[Gar Guru]

Will this reduce the number of people wanting/applying for muzzy elk tags? If so, that increases the chances of people that are ok with a muzzy with no scope.

 

[Fedwell]

I have always been amazed at the Use of Scopes on Muzzle Loaders. Arent they supposed to be a Primative weapon? Use of scopes with all the other modern advancements in Muzzle Loaders turns Muzzle Loader season into just another Rifle Season. Just my 2cents worth.

 

[charliewhisky]

Having bird hunted a lot of places after bow season I highly doubt that's the case. We find carcasses all over the place that bow hunters either never realized they'd hit or lacked the the skills to track, this is on "archery only" ranches.

The problem is there's no way to quantify the numbers where there is mixed hunting because usually all that's left after God's cleanup squad gets dine is the head and axial skeleton.

I know that you are correct about tracking failures. I have personally failed to track at least three successful bow hunting kills and only realized this days, or weeks, after the hunt. In each case I found the carcass during subsequent hunts and am reasonably certain that they were mine. I can blame internal bleeding, autumn leaves falling like heavy snow, and a running shot at a big buck just as a violent rainstorm hit but it does not change the facts. I have also found the carcasses you described in Archery only areas that were never tracked successfully by other hunters. I do not believe that this is relevant to the discussion however because most archers will find their kill simply because they are more skilled. I can honestly say that I have never lost a muzzleloading deer. In my opinion, muzzleloading with iron sights, at muzzle loading ranges, is highly productive. traditional iron sights are the equivalent of sighting down the barrel and a .45 Cal ball has a tremendous killing power. An experienced shooter is focused on the front sight and everything else falls into place with practice. At traditional ranges, you only have to worry about bullet drop and that is not usually much. As to wounded game, it is likely that without a scope, there will be fewer wounding shots on game that always looks closer on a scope.

 

[Cholla]

I would prefer it go to no inlines and get the hunt back as it was, with traditional firearms only. With Arizona's weird muzzleloader regs and units, I am in the process of selling my inlines.

 

[blvette75]

Recently heard where New Mexico proposes a change to the muzzleloader requirements beginning in 2023. The proposed change would be to eliminate the use of scopes.

My question for those folks who hunt in states with this rule already established is will that increase the number of wounded animals? I know with my aging eyes I have a difficult time seeing clearly the rear sights on any firearm.

Please provide your opinions and experience.

Good morning Richard,

My issue is one of hunter safety and ensuring you know what is behind your target. Most hunters of my age are a bit eye sight impaired. The use of good optics ensure that I can adequately survey the surrounding and ensure there are no other object that are approaching my targeted animal, ie other hunters, hikers, mountain bikers, or anyone else who may be in the area.
Thanks James