New Gunwerks 6.5-284 Norma

[Green Pond]

See #23 above.

 

[Green Pond]

I have killed elk out to 905 yards with the 140 vld from a 6.5x284 through the shoulder and still didn't recover the bullet. Hitting the front shoulder helps bullet expansion at lower impact velocity and the animal will go down quicker. Gunwerks is spot on with their advice. If you are worried about penetration step up to the 156. The higher sectional density will penetrate further.

I looked at the ballistic calculator today and noticed that my 6.5-284 140 VLD load has more velocity than the 300 win mag shooting 180 Bergers at a 1,000 yards. The 300 only had about 100-150 fpe more than the 6.5 at this distance. Doesn't seem like the 300 win is that much more of an advantage if any at all. Am I looking at this right ?

 

[Yotekiller]

That would depend on the muzzle velocity of each load and I don't have time right now to run the numbers. Basically, as long as you keep your impact velocity above 1,800 fps the bullet will do the job. I wouldn't worry about fpe. With modern fragmenting bullets it really makes no difference. What matters is the wound channel size and location. Between 4"-14" of penetration is where the front half of the bullet will detonate and make a wide wound channel. If that part of the bullet path is between the shoulders no animal is going to stay alive. The only 140 vld I have recovered was from a large mule deer buck quartering to where the bullet stopped under the skin in a hind quarter. With close range shots and higher impact velocity you will get much less penetration due to the bullet loosing more of its weight.

 

[Green Pond]

They were pretty much the same starting velocity. I understand what you're saying just didn't realize they were so close. The 6.5 was over 1800 FPS but the 300 wasn't.

 

[BrentM]

They were pretty much the same starting velocity. I understand what you're saying just didn't realize they were so close. The 6.5 was over 1800 FPS but the 300 wasn't.

The 6.5 140 has significantly better bc therefore it retains more FPS down range. In the 30 cal you have to step up to the 200 class bullets to have equal bc and retain FPS. You can run a 215 at 2950 plus in a 300. I run 180's in a 7mm at 2950 and that is a impressive combo.

 

[Green Pond]

The 6.5 140 has significantly better bc therefore it retains more FPS down range. In the 30 cal you have to step up to the 200 class bullets to have equal bc and retain FPS. You can run a 215 at 2950 plus in a 300. I run 180's in a 7mm at 2950 and that is a impressive combo.

Yeah I get it. But I didn't understand why lots of the responses in this thread were suggesting a 300 mag over the 6.5 when the numbers really don't support that at 1,000 yds. The 180 is pretty standard in the 300 mag. as a hunting load. Either way, good info and appreciate the response.

 

[Buster Hemlock]

I looked at the ballistic calculator today and noticed that my 6.5-284 140 VLD load has more velocity than the 300 win mag shooting 180 Bergers at a 1,000 yards. The 300 only had about 100-150 fps more than the 6.5 at this distance. Doesn't seem like the 300 win is that much more of an advantage if any at all. Am I looking at this right ?

Most guys running a 300 Win Mag at that type of range for elk aren't shooting the 180 but are typically running the 210, 215 or 230 if they are shooting Bergers, if another brand of bullets and there are many they are typically in this same general weight class. I have two 300 Win mags and one I run the 180's and one I shoot the 215's. If I think shots will approach the 600 yard mark or beyond I'm taking the heavier rifle running the 215's. Bore diameter, Sectional density and impact energy at minimum expansion velocity does matter at this range. If it didn't we could further step down from the 6.5-284 to a 240 Weatherby running 115 VLD's (it will launch them a bit faster than either the 6.5-284 or Win Mag) but would impact with similar velocity to both the 300 Win mag and 6.5-284 at 1000 yards but generate right about 100 ft/lbs less than the 6.5-284. Similar 100 ft/lbs drop in energy as going from the win mag to the 6.5-284 as going from the 6.5-284 to the 240 weatherby but maintaining similar impact velocity across the board. I say all this not to say the 6.5-284 isn't capable, again I'm a big fan of the 6.5-284, but there are some other things to consider and personally don't see a 6.5-284 as a go to 1000 yard elk rifle. Yes it can get the job done but there are better options at this kind of range. When you first started this thread you mentioned using this rifle for clients, are they as capable of a shooter as yourself or someone that can make a shot at these ranges? All worth considering. If they aren't capable shooters all the gun you can buy isn't going to help. Not trying to provoke a fight but illicit some productive thinking and conversation. Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck and hope to see some trophy photos!

 

[BrentM]

Yeah I get it. But I didn't understand why lots of the responses in this thread were suggesting a 300 mag over the 6.5 when the numbers really don't support that at 1,000 yds. The 180 is pretty standard in the 300 mag. as a hunting load. Either way, good info and appreciate the response.

It goes back to terminal ballistics and people actually studying ballistics modeling to see what combos produce what results. I do this all the time. I'm doing it now for my 6.5 prc rifle. Running a 156 vs a 135 for example. Model tells me I can get about 200-250 FPS more out of the 135. I input the info and study the results of the data.

lots of people have been programmed for a long time to choose a vs b just because. Keep doing what you are doing, asking questions.