New bullet with Smokeless

[Kmccord]

It wouldn't hurt to ask, they may tell you not worth the process, or they mention they are working on one, only one way to find out..

 

[Wolf76]

I'd suggest you look at parker bullets. Even dropping down 25-50 grains in bullet weight makes a big difference in felt recoil. Bob is a good guy to talk to and could give you a solid starting point.

 

[ENCORE]

Believe it or not I was just thinking about contacting them and asking about a smokeless muzz smaller than a .45. I certainly don't want to be the one to fund the research and dev required to build and test the prototype. It would be a very cool rifle to have.

The custom builders have been building 40's and smaller for a long time.

 

[Bullmark]

I'd suggest you look at parker bullets. Even dropping down 25-50 grains in bullet weight makes a big difference in felt recoil. Bob is a good guy to talk to and could give you a solid starting point.

My first McWhorter smokeless was not bullet to bore and I shot Parkers (with a sabot). It was just as accurate......and only +\- 200fps slower. Of course I convinced myself that the sabot was a huge inconvenience and the added velocity was of huge importance. So I sold the first one and bought the bullet to bore. I still have a bunch of the Parker 300's and 325s. They are about 1/4" shorter, but I'm sure I could size em and they'd shoot great.

 

[Bullmark]

The custom builders have been building 40's and smaller for a long time.

I remember seeing one or two in the past but don't have any first hand knowledge of any. Honestly I don't think there is much out there that you can't ethically hunt pushing a 325gr at 2900+\- fps.
I would like to see the ballistics and field performance of a smaller caliber smokeless. My guess is it's probably very similar to the centerfire counterpart.

 

[ENCORE]

I remember seeing one or two in the past but don't have any first hand knowledge of any. Honestly I don't think there is much out there that you can't ethically hunt pushing a 325gr at 2900+\- fps.
I would like to see the ballistics and field performance of a smaller caliber smokeless. My guess is it's probably very similar to the centerfire counterpart.

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You can find a TON of information there about SML builds. I know my builder has a 40 that he rings steel with at a mile. Some builders have smaller cal. rifles. One other builder IIRC will be shooting a 40 this summer to TWO (2) MILES! Or at least attempting to.

 

[Carsyn.22]

The custom builders have been building 40's and smaller for a long time.

Yes they have! Looking back in some old threads on various forums there are reports of .25, 6.5mm, .308, .338, 358, 9.3/375 smooth form, 375 Full form, 40's of a few different dia. and .416 to use the big heavy High BC bullets from the Barrett.

Most of these seemed to be used by guys that had all the pressure trace stuff, never really seemed to get past that into the hands of regular guys with just a Chrono and sizing dies for equipment. I understand that few states if any would allow such a gun for hunting muzzle seasons but in Saskatchewan where I live it would be perfectly legal.... just wish the info on them was a little more available.

 

[travis74]

Mine has a McWhorter brake....I can't speak to its effectiveness.....although I can't imagine it doesn't compare reasonably well. I've never removed it but I'm sure I could. This is the second smokeless I've owned from them...the first was 9-10 yrs ago and required a sabot. When they started making the bullet to bore I sold the first one and actually ended up with Allan's, McWhorter's owner, personal rifle....long story there, but he'd put 25-30 rounds through it, and I've put maybe 20.
Don't get wrong, the recoil is stiff, but I haven't shot anything larger than a .280ai for years.....as I've aged I've moved away from the big boomers.
So if I tried a 250gr bullet, where would u start with the same powder I'm shooting?
Would the same charge of 74gr be too much for the lighter bullet?? Or is the weight of the bullet irrelevant to pressure?
Thanks for reaching out. Maybe one day when I have some time I'll tell about when I bought 4 different Savage smokeless muzz's, and wasted an entire summer.
When I discovered a custom smokeless I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.
thanks again.

what was wrong with the savages?

 

[Bullmark]

what was wrong with the savages?

Man I wish I could say for sure. All I know is I went through 3 that I remember, and there may have been a 4th. My buddy also had two, and we spent more range time on those rifles than you'd believe. We must have tried 7-8 different powders and at least that many diff bullets. Every combination possible and then some. We would get some good groups and steady speed with one load, call it a day and think we had it. Then the next time out it would be erratic as hell.
I gives me a headache just thinking about it.
I was planning for a late season Iowa hunt and eventually threw in the towel, got my Encore sighted in w/BH 209....sold 2 of the Savages for a pittance and gave the other one away.
Its funny because while I was on that hunting trip I met Allan from McWhorter Rifles. He had one of their new smokeless builds and let me shoot it. I shot a small pumpkin the size of a volleyball off the top of a fence post at something like 375 yds. The pumpkin had hardly finished exploding and I was putting in my order for one.
I do know several guys that still shoot the Savage and they are pretty accurate. It was a strange thing and if my buddy had not been having the same issues I'd say it was something that I was doing.
We weren't expecting .5 MOA out to 500 yds or anything close to that performance. One inch at 100 was fine and we never got it.
I love my McWhorter and if I could only keep one gun I think it would be the one. The recoil is a little stiff but it shoots as well as any custom centerfire that I've ever owned, including the ones McWhorter built.

 

[kbrezlin]

Problem I found with other bullets besides Pittmans and Parker's is spring back after sizing for bullet to bore. I only shoot the Pittman Accumax 300 grain in mine with 4198. I run them through the die 5 times and can leave them for a year. I have tried shooting the Hornady SST but found that I get spring back after they were sized and sat for awhile.

 

[Bullmark]

I only shoot the Pittman 325s.....w/ 73.5g of 4198. It's a stout load but hammers whatever it hits.

 

[ENCORE]

Problem I found with other bullets besides Pittmans and Parker's is spring back after sizing for bullet to bore. I only shoot the Pittman Accumax 300 grain in mine with 4198. I run them through the die 5 times and can leave them for a year. I have tried shooting the Hornady SST but found that I get spring back after they were sized and sat for awhile.

Sizing 5 times helps prevent spring back from bullets. Fury won't spring back after a single pass. The XLD's I'm shooting don't spring back after sizing 5 times for at least year. They remain at 9# in a clean bore.

Another thing sizing 5 times does, is that passing them through that many times creates bullets that are identical in size and loading force in a clean barrel. I use precision tooling to measure forces. Testing that I have completed and that of another shooter indicates that regardless of the loading force, there's no affect on LONG range accuracy or velocity. Pressures created with SML propellants obturates the bullets immediately and fully.

Testing with BH209 will hopefully be completed this summer.