New Bullet Design

[jwp475]

I think a poly-tip on the 180 grain Berger profile would be nice. Definite expansion and high BC, with lower weight. .7 BC with a 150 grainer would be amazing. 3400 fps+ from STWs and RUMs, and real fast with an Allen Mag.

The Berger is allready an extremely faster expander with its thin J-4 jacket... Why would you possably want it to open faster?

 

[Tyler Kemp]

On the AR forums someone said they had some penciling problems. With a tip wouldn't that be nearly impossible?

 

[fariswm]

On the AR forums someone said they had some penciling problems. With a tip wouldn't that be nearly impossible?

There is little question that polymer ballistic tips do not deform in the box, the magazine, etc. like lead tips do on bullets.

I am not saying that a polymer tip is not of value in this new concept, but that it is not a focus for the development because we are focusing on the core of the bullet and not the exterior. That is where I feel we can make the biggest contribution.

 

[linksmechanic]

jwp: That was exactly what I was thinking. I've hunted with Bergers for 2 years now and there is no need for more expansion. I have shot animal up to 700 yards and shot a deer at 15 yards and at both ranges expansion was perfect. If I wanted any improvement on the berger it would be a higher b.c. which would be hard to accomplish. Retaining there accuracy and staying at berger's price would also be tough also imo.

 

[edge]

IMO, you have a lot of different issues here.

BC, in short is based on the shape and the SD of the bullet. Make a normal bullet out of aluminum and the BC goes down, make it out of tungsten and it goes up.

Most rifles have a twist for normal bullets. If you plan on making an extra long bullet then the rifle maker would need to make it with a tighter twist.

The Drag is not just one item, it is Nose drag ( which is the largest drag ), then there is Base drag and Skin drag.

I think that most target bullets are hollow points because it is the easiest shape to make consistently accurate.

edge.

 

[fariswm]

jwp: That was exactly what I was thinking. I've hunted with Bergers for 2 years now and there is no need for more expansion. I have shot animal up to 700 yards and shot a deer at 15 yards and at both ranges expansion was perfect. If I wanted any improvement on the berger it would be a higher b.c. which would be hard to accomplish. Retaining there accuracy and staying at berger's price would also be tough also imo.

With the accuracy people are getting with several bullet brands, it is obvious that we are not going to develop a more accurate bullet in the sense that it will arrive at the target 1000 yards downrange consistently in a smaller group, only one that perhaps shoots flatter with less wind deflection. While that in itself may contribute to accuracy, bullets made today from most manufacturers are amazing achievers. I can only guess that pricing will not be affected to a great degree.

 

[fariswm]

IMO, you have a lot of different issues here.

BC, in short is based on the shape and the SD of the bullet. Make a normal bullet out of aluminum and the BC goes down, make it out of tungsten and it goes up.

Most rifles have a twist for normal bullets. If you plan on making an extra long bullet then the rifle maker would need to make it with a tighter twist.

The Drag is not just one item, it is Nose drag ( which is the largest drag ), then there is Base drag and Skin drag.

I think that most target bullets are hollow points because it is the easiest shape to make consistently accurate.

edge.

We are receiving a lot of good input from this forum and our technical research. The secret to making this bullet will be to make it so that it performs like a bullet with proper expansion and weight retention while achieving the ballistic expectations of shooters. I realize this is a tall order. We may fail, but it is an effort worth expending. By the way-- I fully expect to succeed.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

When do you expect to have some bullets made? I'm sure LRH would love to give them a try.

 

[fariswm]

When do you expect to have some bullets made? I'm sure long range hunting would love to give them a try.

I really don't expect to have anything out for about 4 months. We are in the preliminary development stages and since we are using new technology in the core, we are having to engineer our alloys etc. and then develop processes for making them.

We will keep you posted and thanks for the interest.

 

[Bob33]

You might look up Lost River Ballistics. They're another Idaho company that worked in this arena (long range ballistics; you're not related are you?) They were recently acquired by Hooker Tactical.

 

[fariswm]

You might look up Lost River Ballistics. They're another Idaho company that worked in this arena (long range ballistics; you're not related are you?) They were recently acquired by Hooker Tactical.

Lost River Ballistics was headquartered in Arco, ID about 200 miles east of us. Their phone number no longer works and their website is down. That isn't real good. They did turned copper bullets with very high BC's from what I understand.

No- we are not connected.

 

[davewilson]

i know a fellow that probably knows as much as anyone about this stuff. he developed a very successful style of bullet and in doing so tried many different alloys. one thing i remember him saying about aluminum bullets was that they left absolutely no fouling in the barrel, even when fired at nearly 6000fps. a bullet that didn't leave anything in the barrel would be nice. maybe an aluminum skin instead of copper. just passing along what he told me, don't know if it's true or not.

another thought i've had would be to hollow out the back end of the bullet. would help with the length/weight ratio but moves the CG forward which doesn't help accuracy. just an idea i thought i'd throw out there since you're starting from scratch.

make sure your core isn't anything the EPA will ban like they're doing with lead.

 

[fariswm]

i know a fellow that probably knows as much as anyone about this stuff. he developed a very successful style of bullet and in doing so tried many different alloys. one thing i remember him saying about aluminum bullets was that they left absolutely no fouling in the barrel, even when fired at nearly 6000fps. a bullet that didn't leave anything in the barrel would be nice. maybe an aluminum skin instead of copper. just passing along what he told me, don't know if it's true or not.

another thought i've had would be to hollow out the back end of the bullet. would help with the length/weight ratio but moves the CG forward which doesn't help accuracy. just an idea i thought i'd throw out there since you're starting from scratch.

make sure your core isn't anything the EPA will ban like they're doing with lead.

I would be real careful about making Aluminum bullets. Aluminum in a pure state is very ductile, but subjected to air and the chemistries of life, it oxidizes very readily. Aluminum oxide, as you may know is what many sandpapers are made from. About 9 on a Mohs scale. On a piece of aluminum the oxide layer may be very thin, but I would think that it would not be good for any barrel. Like running 2000 grit sandpaper down your barrel every time you shoot. That is probably why it doesn't foul. The bullet sands its way down the barrel. I don't know that this would be so, but I think it is a pretty good guess.

We are specifically staying away from any materials that the EPA will frown on. We hope to be the "environmental solution".

Thanks for the input.

 

[davewilson]

Ouch!