New Beast from Allen Precision Shooting!!!

[Calvin45]

Regarding the subject of the benefits of higher projectile weight...in extremely overbore (a touchy word I know) cartridges or cartridges with such massive case capacity, is it not also true that it's easier to work up loads with super low velocity deviations than with lighter pills, even if the bc isn't that different? And is it not also often observed with magnum cases and, well, whatever you'd even call these behemoths, that the heaviest bullets realize the energy potential of the cartridge much more readily, they're more efficient? Even in the dimunutive 300 win mag I've come to see no point in shooting anything under 180 grains as you can't even drive them that much faster, they certainly don't shoot appreciably flatter. I have also found the tightest extreme spread numbers with old school 220 round nose bullets.

 

[oldno7]

Great project and report, thus far.

Seems like a decent round to sit on a prairie dog town with,

at say, 2-3miles

 

[snox801]

Well I sent Kirby an email a few months back about a dinner we had in Texas while hunting. People where talking cartridges and had a .338 lapua improved out so I went back to my room and brought out the .375AM. Some fun things where said after that. I shared the story with Kirby about how impressed they all seemed to be with the size of my unit. Then this a hole sends me back saying I need one of these. Lol
Maybe I can buy one of the test rifles. Makes sense for a guy from Michigan to own many long range rigs as we rarely get over 100 yard shot. Get back to work Kirby!

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Lighter, Sleeker, Faster! Has all of those in comparison to a 50 of any sort.

I'd still like to see that 50 Maximus with a 45" barrel paired with a similar bullet from Hammer.

 

[bdlesh]

while at least 95+% of this thread is way over my head....It is the reason I love this site! I checked out Allen wildcats and can only say.....OMG! My world has been turned upside down. I have been wanting to build a high power .338 of some sort and didn't want the plain vanilla variety. I have some home work to do now.

Thanks Kirby and Steve for the valuable information and willingness to share with us!

 

[snox801]

while at least 95+% of this thread is way over my head....It is the reason I love this site! I checked out Allen wildcats and can only say.....OMG! My world has been turned upside down. I have been wanting to build a high power .338 of some sort and didn't want the plain vanilla variety. I have some home work to do now.

Thanks Kirby and Steve for the valuable information and willingness to share with us!

Man you will not be disappointed. Kirby is a top notch best of the best. I can't say enough good about him. I was almost ready to give up on customs until I decide one last time to get a turn key from Kirby.
He told me up front the wait time was long. And we agreed upon a price and timeframe. As with everything life happens and he was very detailed and open about some hold ups on his end to put the project back a bit longer. I understood and it was a blessing in disguise because I was making changes on my end that effected the build timeline even more. But in the end I got exactly what I wanted. My once in a lifetime rifle my .375 AM. Another blessing was the scope I had picked out was changed also because the new atacr 7-35 ffp came out just before we were finished and it now rides on top. I also added the turn key package which of course added time. All said and done it made me a believer in customs. The first shot I ever made with the rifle was 428 yards on a cull goat and it leveled it. Not real far but I didn't have time to check my drops at distance at my location.
All and all well worth the weight. I'm already hoping to buy another soon.

Thank you again Kirby,
Glad to see you back on the forums.

 

[snox801]

while at least 95+% of this thread is way over my head....It is the reason I love this site! I checked out Allen wildcats and can only say.....OMG! My world has been turned upside down. I have been wanting to build a high power .338 of some sort and didn't want the plain vanilla variety. I have some home work to do now.

Thanks Kirby and Steve for the valuable information and willingness to share with us!

As for Steve and hammer. When I first reached out to him to buy 300 405gr 375 Bullets for this build he said he would love to sell me those but they had some issues with stability past 1500 yards they were working on. Knowing that I would never shoot past that in the coming years he still refused to sell them to me. I said that Kirby needed them for my load work and nope. I ended up with cutting edge instead. But that showed me that he would rather give up a sale in the short run to win a customer in the long term. Which he did. I am slowly switching everything over to hammers. They have worked flawlessly for me so far. I enjoy honest people in business and he always takes time to help me work through my thought processes to figure out which Bullets I need and even if his doesn't fit that bill he steers you to what does.
Thanks again Steve for putting up with me.

 

[Fiftydriver]

is it not also true that it's easier to work up loads with super low velocity deviations than with lighter pills, even if the bc isn't that different? And is it not also often observed with magnum cases and, well, whatever you'd even call these behemoths, that the heaviest bullets realize the energy potential of the cartridge much more readily, they're more efficient? Even in the dimunutive 300 win mag I've come to see no point in shooting anything under 180 grains as you can't even drive them that much faster, they certainly don't shoot appreciably flatter. I have also found the tightest extreme spread numbers with old school 220 round nose bullets.[/QUOTE]

In all of my testing with my wildcats starting in 2003, in every instance, using the heaviest bullets possible produced the tightest velocity spreads. Not only that, groups measured at 500, 800 and 1000 yards ALWAYS were smallest with the heavies, even when velocity spreads were not dramatically different.

As far as kenetic energy, since kenetic energy is calculated by the square of the velocity, lighter, extremely fast bullets can show some impressive kenetic energy levels, however, while this looks good on paper, in real life kenetic enegy payload can be a bit misleading if one does not have a good understanding on how it works in real life.

Kenetic energy can be useful in comparing different cartridges shooting similar weight projos but in the same cartridge, comparing different bullet weights, its less effective at making a comparision, again, because velocity in the formula is squared so more importance is given to velocity then bullet weight.

Back to using heavy bullets and the benefits of such. In my professional opinion, the heavy bullet weights, especially in very large capacity designs, provides the resistance needed for proper and consistent powder ignition. Also promotes a more effective and complete powder burn. Resistence increases pressure, pressure improves the ignition and burn characteristics of smokeless gunpowder, especially the ultra slow burning powder we use alot of.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Great project and report, thus far.

Seems like a decent round to sit on a prairie dog town with,

at say, 2-3miles

While i like your style, i DO NOT recommend using this or any other large caliber cartridge firing solid projos for prairie dogs. The reason is because of the high risk of bullets traveling some very long dostances after initial impact. A 700 gr class solid can travel miles after impact making it a nessesity that every bullet fired is controlled at or very near impact location in a very positive way, beat way, several feed under the ground or slapped against a steel plate hard enough to make the projo splinter into harmless pieces, well, relatively harmless. I have on two occasions killed rockchucks with my 510 Allen Magnums shooting the 815 gr. Lehigh bore riders with indirect fire technique, actually on purpose. Both were at ranges in the 900-1100 yard range.

Both chucks were laying flat on a big flat rock, could only see a very small portion of them from our shooting position. Not enough to take a clear shot with, however, they were also laying in a location that had a large flat, HARD rock surface just behind where they were sprawled out soaking up the sun.

In both cases, i hit the rock surface, roughly a foot above where the chuck was laying and on impact, the bullet frags pounded the chucks to instantly kill them. Looked like they had been shot with a 12 gauge.

So in the immediate impact location, not exactly harmless pieces of projos!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

Lighter, Sleeker, Faster! Has all of those in comparison to a 50 of any sort.

I'd still like to see that 50 Maximus with a 45" barrel paired with a similar bullet from Hammer.

Thats coming!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

Man you will not be disappointed. Kirby is a top notch best of the best. I can't say enough good about him. I was almost ready to give up on customs until I decide one last time to get a turn key from Kirby.
He told me up front the wait time was long. And we agreed upon a price and timeframe. As with everything life happens and he was very detailed and open about some hold ups on his end to put the project back a bit longer. I understood and it was a blessing in disguise because I was making changes on my end that effected the build timeline even more. But in the end I got exactly what I wanted. My once in a lifetime rifle my .375 AM. Another blessing was the scope I had picked out was changed also because the new atacr 7-35 ffp came out just before we were finished and it now rides on top. I also added the turn key package which of course added time. All said and done it made me a believer in customs. The first shot I ever made with the rifle was 428 yards on a cull goat and it leveled it. Not real far but I didn't have time to check my drops at distance at my location.
All and all well worth the weight. I'm already hoping to buy another soon.

Thank you again Kirby,
Glad to see you back on the forums.

Thanks for your kind words. Biggest stresser in my business are often things out of my control that delay shipping times. Hate making my customers wait but it has been part of this industry for the past 15 years. However, in the process to get to the point i can sell my rifles out of inventory. More over head and a bit more risk for me if they dont sell but dramatically less headaches as well!!! Working hard to get all old standing orders finished and shipped, then will be going that direction.

Can not say how much i appreciate the patients you guys have extended to me and that i am truly honored and humbled with each rifle i am asked to build. Thats why i build everyone the same, as if it were mine and never rush the builds or testing, takes time but only way to give you guys the products you deserve for your hard earned money!!

Very appreciative and thankful for all of you!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

As for Steve and hammer. When I first reached out to him to buy 300 405gr 375 Bullets for this build he said he would love to sell me those but they had some issues with stability past 1500 yards they were working on. Knowing that I would never shoot past that in the coming years he still refused to sell them to me. I said that Kirby needed them for my load work and nope. I ended up with cutting edge instead. But that showed me that he would rather give up a sale in the short run to win a customer in the long term. Which he did. I am slowly switching everything over to hammers. They have worked flawlessly for me so far. I enjoy honest people in business and he always takes time to help me work through my thought processes to figure out which Bullets I need and even if his doesn't fit that bill he steers you to what does.
Thanks again Steve for putting up with me.

Brian and Steve are the real deal. They test the heck out of their bullets. I have been lucky enough to be a small part of that and it has been alot of fun. They are willing to try my ideas and take my recommendations respectfully all the time even though i am no bullet maker. They are fast and fair. Their products have allowed me to take some pretty big critters over the past years doing my rifle and cartridge field testing.

177 gr. Hammer prototype out of my 7mm Allen Magnum

128 gr. 257" prototype hammer out of 257 Allen Magnum

128 gr. 257" Hammer out of 257 Allen Magnum.

Could other bullets have been used to harvest these critters, you bet, but nice as a Montana boy to use a Montana bullet out of a Montana rifle to bring some big bone back from Canada!!

Check out the Northern Giants promo video at 36 seconds you see the 257 Allen Magnum and Hammer bullets do their job at 420 yards on the 350 lb canadian whitetail above.



Kind of sad to say, the past 10 years, have not had much time to hunt, basically a week to canada is about all i can spare with the work load i have had but its been some fun R&D field tests!!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

while at least 95+% of this thread is way over my head....It is the reason I love this site! I checked out Allen wildcats and can only say.....OMG! My world has been turned upside down. I have been wanting to build a high power .338 of some sort and didn't want the plain vanilla variety. I have some home work to do now.

Thanks Kirby and Steve for the valuable information and willingness to share with us!

I have always made it a point in my business to make it clear that this stuff is NOT OVER ANYONES HEAD. yes you can take it as far as you want as far as being technical and complicated but i build big game hunting rifles, the majority if which are designed to be used in the 400-1200 yard range. Yes some WELL past that but for out to 1000 yard reach with the accuracy and precision needed to get the job done. Its amazing really how simple it is and with an hour of training, most can easily pick it up and go on from there with practice to be extremely effective.

I am not a comp shooter, no desire to make a WORLD RECORD distance shot after spending a full day spraying rounds down range. Nothing against those that do this and post results, they are helping push the performance envelope in their own way which i respect but just do not call this precision or consistency so not my think. Working on a system that will offer consistency and precision at 4k yards but until proven, nothing to talk about.

Point being, some in our industry make a living making people think long range shooting is so complicated that you have to do it THEIR WAY or you will not be successful. My system is simple, get good equipment, get the equipment that you ACTUALLY NEED, and then practice. I follow the KISS theory in all i do. It can be amazingly simple and anyone with a desire to focus on details can easily have 1k yard big game hunting ability.

 

[snox801]

Kirby I can't wait to be able to buy a rifle from you that's in stock only problem I see is never having one in stock. Lol
Those are some big white tails. Hammer is great to work with I talked with Steve about my issues with the mono 300 blk and he made a perfect bulllet for it in my mind took all I didn't like with the raptors and fixed it. I'm just about out of my huge supply of them I bought and will be doing hammers.