New barrel idea's

[lazylabs]

Jfseaman.... I did not say anything bad about Lilja so please don't infer that. I simply disagee that 'most overbore fire-breathers go 3 groove'.That is why I mentioned sales numbers, that does speak to popularity and the "most".

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Jfseaman.... I did not say anything bad about Lilja so please don't infer that. I simply disagee that 'most overbore fire-breathers go 3 groove'.That is why I mentioned sales numbers, that does speak to popularity and the "most".

Feenix.... of course Lilja will say his barrels are the best, if he didn't I wouldn't of ever tried one. I do agree its probably preference in the end. I just don't think that "most" 300s are made on 3 groove barrels. I bet Krieger sells more (cut, non 3 groove) 308 barrels a year than Lilja does in 5.

Warning: I'm in that pedantic, debating mood. It may come across as aggressive or confrontational but it is all for the purpose of education and of course like many of our (as in all of us) posts, self affirmation.

Please explain sir, what does " Lilja will say his barrels are the best" mean. I have only seen that as a veiled insult.

Please explain sir, what does "I bet Krieger sells more" mean. I have only seen that as a passive aggressive denigration of "the other guy".

Do you have a Pac-Nor or Krieger? Much less a 3 groove? If not you could consider recusing yourself from comment on the differences.

Popularity and sales performance does not equate to "best" for the purpose intended. As in an army of monkeys with typewriters will eventually write "War and Peace". That may not be the best way to get a copy of "War and Peace".

Do you own or shoot a 3 groove from any maker?

I wouldn't be surprised of you have a Krieger because everyone has them...

 

[FEENIX]

All things being equal (difficult to discern performance differences), I would always opt for local. If you are proximal to Lilja, go Lilja unless there is a reason not to. There are no premium/custom barrel makers in California that I know of so no local.

Odd, I no longer have any of my Lilja barrels or barreled actions. Pac-Nor, Hart, Bartlien, Krieger, Benchmark and Proof.

By far my largest barrel supplier is Pac-Nor. 6 total barrels installed or not, 4 of them 3 groove.

I agree ... I do have quite a few local barrel manufacturers here in MT ... love Made in Montana products and like you would like to support my local products.

Dan and son Carson has provided me with excellent products and CS.

Cheers!

 

[lazylabs]

Well I explained why I made those comments. It was in response to the comment prior to mine in the thread.

Go get in a fight with someone else. This is why LRH has been going downhill the last 5 years.

 

[Barrelnut]

As far a contour goes... I like the straight taper or match contour Bartlein #9. I have one that is finished at 28# on a 300 RUM. It just looks better to me on a heavy barreled long range rifle than a Sendero contour. Plus the Bartlein will finish at .900 vs. .830 on the Sendero. The slightly heavier contour should give a bit less barrel whip too.

 

[toddc]

A HUMMER barrel is a combination of so many different factors that NO MAKER can build them at will. All makers build bad tubes and they all build GREAT tubes. Any of the popular makers will most likely build a tube that can OUTSHOOT any of us anyway. I have run barrels from Hart, Schneider, Kreiger, Pac-Nor, Mcgowen, Lilja, Douglas, CBI and others I cant name off the top of my head. All shot well, cleaned well and lasted IF TREATED NICELY.
Who makes the best barrels is a fun internet battle but in reality a completely unanswerable question. I don't like waiting so I generally build off of something I can get ahold of RIGHT NOW and am perfectly happy.
There have been studies done where a guy bought a 40" tube and cut it in half to build two IDENTICAL tubes for short range bench rest. He used the same reamer, action, stock everything. The two barrels shot differently and needed different loads to perform well. Barrels are too complex to reduce to a one is better than the other question.

 

[freebird63]

Somewhere I once read to stay away from button rifling barrels.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Well I explained why I made those comments. It was in response to the comment prior to mine in the thread.

Go get in a fight with someone else. This is why LRH has been going downhill the last 5 years.

If you can't see that you made disparaging remarks about someone not here to defend themselves, you could think about what you wrote. What you wrote, "is why LRH has been going downhill for the last 5 years".

I'll say it again, no 3 groove, no Lilja barrels, no horse the the race. Armchair critic.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

well said.

A HUMMER barrel is a combination of so many different factors that NO MAKER can build them at will. All makers build bad tubes and they all build GREAT tubes. Any of the popular makers will most likely build a tube that can OUTSHOOT any of us anyway. I have run barrels from Hart, Schneider, Kreiger, Pac-Nor, Mcgowen, Lilja, Douglas, CBI and others I cant name off the top of my head. All shot well, cleaned well and lasted IF TREATED NICELY.
Who makes the best barrels is a fun internet battle but in reality a completely unanswerable question. I don't like waiting so I generally build off of something I can get ahold of RIGHT NOW and am perfectly happy.
There have been studies done where a guy bought a 40" tube and cut it in half to build two IDENTICAL tubes for short range bench rest. He used the same reamer, action, stock everything. The two barrels shot differently and needed different loads to perform well. Barrels are too complex to reduce to a one is better than the other question.

 

[lazylabs]

Jfseaman.... get a life! That is a disparaging remark!

I was directly talking to you when I said your kind of post are dragging down LRH. It seems you even started your post by saying you want to argue..... what an ***, again dsparaging!

We were talking about barrels until you decided to get offended on someone elses behalf.

What have you offered to this discussion other than opinion? NOTHING

What did I contribute.... my opinion

If you don't like it fine.... post yours and move on.

I realize its winter and everyone is bored but settle down.


Sorry to the OP
I just think there are more barrels out there than 3 groove!

 

[FEENIX]

Sorry to the OP
I just think there are more barrels out there than 3 groove!

Of course there areand you could have easily recommended some like we all did. Just because you did not care for Lilja or 3-groove, not presenting the option to the OP is not helping him any.

I have used 3 groove barrels in my high velocity wildcats in 25 cal, 6.5mm, 270 cal and 7mm extensively.

I have not had one that was a bad copper fouler but I have heard some are. I would say I have used roughly 12 of these barrels in the different calibers listed above in velocities up to 4100 fps in the 25 cal and 4250 fps in the 6.5mm barrels.

I am familiar with Bill Baileys rifle and agree it was much more of a fouler then I have experienced with my personal barrels and tests.

That said, I have seen this with every different barrel design out there, every once in a while some will just foul more. I had a Lilja 1-8 30 cal barrel that you could shoot 5 shots through and have 3 cents worth of copper in the barrel after those shots.

Called up Dan and asked him what the problem was. He said to return the barrel and they would check it and relap it if needed. Got the barrel back and its working perfectly well not so things happen every once in a while even with top end barrels.

As far as what you can expect, here are a few things I have learned testing these barrels. Most of these have been fast twist barrels so it may not pertain to your situtation with the 1-15 twist.

- Barrel life is longer. Roughly 15-18% longer compared to a traditional 6 groove barrel. Roughly 10-12% longer then 5 groove barrels and around 8-10% longer then 4 groove. That being all barrels made from the same material and hardness. Some of the harder cut rifled barrels will last longer then save groove count button pulled barrels so you have to compare apples to apples.

- I have not noticed much difference in accuracy with a 3, 4, 5 or 6 groove barrel when all are fitted and chambered properly and the barrel is of top quality.

- I have noticed that the 3 groove barrels are much harder on thin jacketed bullets. Again, this is for heavy VLD or ULD bullets in fast twist barrels. I do not think you will have these issues but if you use a J-4 based bullet, you may have some problems no matter what twist you use with those velocities.

- I have seen some 3 groove barrels produce a bit more velocity then other rifling designs and some a bit less. I have tested them head to head with the 5R and 5S barrels and can tell you that for the three barrels I tested, the Lilja 3 groove produced the least amount of pressure for a given load using the same chamber, throat, bullet and load and barrel length. In fact a comfortable load in the Lilja was leaving a shiny ejector mark on the 5S barrel. All in all, variations from one barrel to another will effect velocity potential to a higher degree then the number of lands in the barrel, especially with conventional cup jacketed bullets. Now with hard bullets thats a different story.

If I am building a rifle for high velocity using very long, very heavy VLD or ULD bullets in a fast twist barrel, I will not use the 3 groove barrels any more simply because of their high baring surface compression % which is just to hard on these bullets and in time you will have problems.

For those types of rifles I will generally use a 4 groove barrel with BSC % in the 20% range and no more.

For conventional chamberings or with very light weight bullets, its not nearly as critical.

All in all, there is not a huge difference between these barrel designs. Break them in well and on average they will behave like any other top end barrel. Of course there is always a chance of a bad barrel but thats the case with any barrel maker.

What bullet will you be using?

 

[FEENIX]

As far a contour goes... I like the straight taper or match contour Bartlein #9. I have one that is finished at 28# on a 300 RUM. It just looks better to me on a heavy barreled long range rifle than a Sendero contour. Plus the Bartlein will finish at .900 vs. .830 on the Sendero. The slightly heavier contour should give a bit less barrel whip too.

I almost went on the same route (Lilja #8, .900" at the muzzle) on my .30 Lara custom rifle but when my gunsmith recommended the sendero varmint (.830" at the muzzle) as the minimum for my intended purpose, I opted for the lighter contour at 27". So far so good ...

 

[lazylabs]

So you post something from years ago that Kirby wrote as what? It's half for half against 3 groove.

Slow down and read the first page of this thread..... someone suggest to the op that 3 groove is the best for overbore cartridges. I simply disagree..... I never bashed lilja so settle down on that front.

I already offered to call Dan tomorrow and tell him his buddies are sticking up for him so just post your name and you will be included.

 

[FEENIX]

So you post something from years ago that Kirby wrote as what? It's half for half against 3 groove.

Slow down and read the first page of this thread..... someone suggest to the op that 3 groove is the best for overbore cartridges. I simply disagree..... I never bashed lilja so settle down on that front.

I already offered to call Dan tomorrow and tell him his buddies are sticking up for him so just post your name and you will be included.

No one suggested it is the best ...

If you stick with the rum a 3 groove Lija should last a little longer. Look at the preferred barrels for the fire breathing overbores. Most are built on the 3 groove

I posted the thread to make a point that it is nothing new and show the skeptics like you back then. If you follow his posts and those that have his rifles, he continue to use Lilja 3-grooves ... and where did I say you bashed Lilja.

If you had a bad experience with Lilja or 3 groove by all means do share, if you have a barrel recommendation(s) by all means do share, it's really that simple.

You're the one that is wound too tight and need to relax.

[ame]https://youtu.be/C6cxNR9ML8k?t=2[/ame]

BTW, Dan don't need your call, I let him and Carson know how well their barrel is working for me. I'll do the same for any barrel makers or products ... I like providing feedbacks, both negative/constructive and positive.