New barrel bore appearance

[Bobcatter]

Looks are not a good way to judge a barrel. I have had great looking barrels before that were JUNK! Copper from end to end, but smooth as a babies but, shiney good looking when scoped after cleaning, and one shot, more lead than any barrel I ever had. After about 150 runds trying to break in, and cleaning every shot, 2 shot, three at the most, just never seen anything like it. It was replaced by the maker. My only issue was they wouldn't even give me a hint to what they found wrong????

Then I just made a purchase, Custom Mohawk 600, 2 very light sporter barrels, one great looking unfired, and one on it that when I got it home looked like absolute JUNK!! Here are the pick's, all different places around the interior within about a 2" length.

This is a 1-8 twist 6x45. I was sick looking at it, but I've learned over the years to not judge a book by it's cover. So after initial test of three loads, all 3 shot groups, all after shooting single shots going up with the load watching for pressure, my starting point with a 65 grain Bibs .243" bullet. 3212 av fps, 3257 av fps and 3307 fps for those 3 shot groups, and not one over .4". Back to load all three with same loads. Confirmed fps av for each, and even better .380" to .518" groups. all from a scoped 24" sporter @ 7.2 pounds. How can you ask anymore out of one powder, one bullet, and all in LC processed military brass!

The 223 barrel shoots good, but no better, and it looks perfect. The 6x45 barrel does not copper bad, and cleans as easy as my PPC Bench Rest rifles barrels. no copper remover required other than butches and regular cleaning. 3 wet, six or so passes with bronze brush, three wet patches, two dry. That's it, and it scopes just like the pictures, hardly any sign of copper, and what is there doesn't build, it just shoots under a dime for 35 to 40 shots, then I just naturally clean it before worrying about it opening up.

Like I said, this is just with the first powder I tried, Benchmark, and 3300 fps aint loading light with 65 grain bullet in a 6mmx45 cartridge. But I don't care to develop a better load for this gun. Its just a walk around varmint rig, and .3 inch groups regularly is all I need for 300 yards with this gun. But had I seen this before I bought it, I'd not have bought it.

Lesson is, sometimes it doesn't have to look like a prom queen to be a real KEEPER! Never judge anything by looks like! You might just miss out on the best shooter you would hope for!!

 

[VinceMule]

Bobcatter, in the pics above, that looks like carbon fouling. The Teslong is a digital image and these little blobs look like pits when just the opposite is often true. I have A hawkeye bore scope also which is a true optical image where the difference between pits and carbon globs are obvious. Once you learn what you are looking at, it will be easier.

I had one ultra-smooth barrel from a good maker. They were teaching the new guy how to lap barrels and he over did the lapping, Resulting in a barrel that turned solid gold from copper fouling. This was an experiemental shallow rifling, 9 Groove barrel, and it shot a bug hole till the copper built up. The maker replaced the barrel with no questions asked.

When Examining cut rifle and button rifle barrels, there are different issues with each in terms of Production problems. When purchasing second and third-quality barrels, production issues abound, not to mention heat treat issues to lead to tight and loose spots in the bore, whether a hone machine was used to uniform the barrel bore from end to end, and lapping.

When you find a cut rifle barrel that is a "Cull" it is usually a real mess, and I urge you not to be scared of a button rifle barrel.

 

[Bobcatter]

Trust me Vince, I sold my Hawkeye while I could still recover some money on them. I've been doing this and competing in Benchrest long, short, score, group, and even some Live varmint for score. I've built dozens of rifles, several revolvers and few single shots. I was taught to shoot precision,,, not PRC or F class, but true extreme accuracy discipline's, and never was small tight enough, and trust me,, those are poors in the barrel! I have JB'd and Iosso'd to smooth the poors, they are 12"- 15" out in front of the action on a 23 3/4" barrel.

I Have worked with the finest gunsmiths and hall of famers, some in their shops learning and helping with my builds. Mentored by Fred Sinclair, educated by Dwight Scott, George Kelbly, Ron Pence while deep hole drilling and rifling barrels by hand, Clarence Hammonds, all with their information and how to understand everything I was doing and witnessing. But Nothing is ALWAYS what you think you see!

This is also a barrel that was just built, has less than 20 rounds thru it when I bought it. The only reason the guy sold it was he found a Cooper in the 6x47 with exotic wood and wanted it but couldn't afford to keep both. This is also from a friend I shoot matches with and have for over 40 years. I won't give a full resume but trust me, hands on is where I learn, not watching or reading or listening.

This is pit's in the metal, maybe corrosion, maybe pours steel, but NOT CARBON! As a Long Range and Short Range Benchrest Competitor for over 50 years I have dealt with carbon for quite some time. This is not Carbon.

 

[VinceMule]

I have seen a lot of that splotchy stuff in barrels, proved to be carbon...hard to believe how hard it was. I just saw some like that in a 6 BRX, looked exactly like that.

I would encourage you to run some JB on a tight fitting punch type jag and patch, then re examine. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. I had to use JB Red on one barrel to get those splotches out, crazy that the carbon specs attach so hard.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you, bobcatter.

We ran with a lot of the same people.

 

[Dean2]

I have seen a lot of that splotchy stuff in barrels, proved to be carbon...hard to believe how hard it was. I just saw some like that in a 6 BRX, looked exactly like that.

I would encourage you to run some JB on a tight fitting punch type jag and patch, then re examine. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. I had to use JB Red on one barrel to get those splotches out, crazy that the carbon specs attach so hard.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you, bobcatter.

We ran with a lot of the same people.

You usually post good stuff and I respect your knowledge, but that IS NOT CARBON fouling in the pictures bobcatter posted. The pictures are VERY clear and those are divots, holes depressions, NOT raised blobs. I think he was also pretty clear in bebunking the idea it is carbon. Have the respect to understand there are others who actually know what they are talking about.

 

[VinceMule]

I have three bore scopes now, one at the lathe, one at the cleaning station, and Hawkeye travels with me to the rifle range, first one was in 1987. I HOPE those are not inclusions in the steel. I am hoping for the best. I have seen stuff like this in the pictures many times, you can actually feel it with a new brush, and your heart sinks. In all my cases, the stuff came out with some work.

 

[Bobcatter]

I HOPE those are not inclusions in the steel. I am hoping for the best.

These 3 shot benchmark groups were shot first day out with this gun using Benchmark, only because it is on the shelf and every other rifle, all match or heavy varmint rigs that I have tried it in, I have found better powders for. Stick the 65 grain Bib FBHP bullets into the lands .006 to .008" and throw a Remington 7.5 SRP in a LC brass primer pocket, and see what it will do. You can stop worrying, I'll take it with that wimpy 23 3/4" X Caliber barrel, pits and all!

I shot over 30 rounds since bringing this home and inspecting the barrel then cleaning, then shooting those loads. I'll not be worried about tuning those loads, or trying another powder! This thing shoots spi with a clean barrel it does with over 30 rounds on it. Don't even know why I cleaned it at 30 rounds, it has yet to shoot a .4" group at 100 yards. It also at 3300 fps is making me quite happy for a lightweight walk around varmint rig.

28,0 grain, 28.5 grains 29.0 grains, what to load?? Just throw 28,5 grains in the 500 LC brass cases I have and grin! Then if you look at the top of that target those top 2 shots are 27.0 grains and 27.5 grains with a Sierra HPBT Game king. I just loaded and shot them to be sure I wasn't seeing any pressure. All this the very first time out, after 3 shots getting the scope close, and after the tests, final zeroing. But I will load both those 85 HPBT loads with 5 shots and see if that bullets shoots as good as the Bib 65. If it does, that's a dang good deer load as the 27.0 load registered 2972 fps!!

I wouldn't loose any sleep worrying about that barrel! My hole point is when a barrel has that damage, and shoots that good, without building cooper, just that little smear you see. The point was, DON'T JUDGE A BARREL BY LOOKS!! I've seen some pretty bad tooling chater in barrels that were match winners. Shoot em, and let the barrel tell you if it's bad or good. Looks mean nothing! I've seen barrels that looked like glass, and felt smooth as a babies ars from end to end, and wouldn't make a good jack handle!

You also musta not read my post, I think I made it clear, I not only run JB through it, I also short stroked it with Iosso, which is more abrasive than the JB, and works faster, it ain't carbon! But NO, that barrel and gun ain't for sale! Like I said, that pitted piece of chit is shooter!! HMM I wonder how good it would shoot if I tuned that load????? But anyways thanks for your concern!

 

[VinceMule]

When those spots were carbon in my barrel, it took some serious methods to get it out. I wrapped fine bronze wool in a Iosso plastic brush or a worn bronze bristle brush, then coated with Iosso, JB Red, or Flitz. I worked it back and forth in the problem area. I wish we lived closer, bobcatter, we could have some fun.