New Allen Magnum and APS rifle design finally ready to test....

Not sure what your asking here.

The crush fit is referring to the brass case fir in the chamber, not the bolt nose to barrel bolt nose recess fit.

If you have any solid contact at all between the bolt and barrel you will have accuracy and consistancy issues no matter what bedding system you use. The V-Block system does not effect this at all. No matter want you do you need 5 thou clearance in diameter and depth with the Rem 700 bolt nose. That is min clearance as well.

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Yes there are some that really do not like that idea. For those there is the clamp on block style. Just harder to get a rifle with conventional dimensions and a conventional scope mounting height using these systems. One could probably use a quality steel alloy and make the block much thinner on the top half to help keep scope height low but then weight goes up more.

Interested to hear what you come up with!!

Please share your ideas!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Kirby, not doing anything that hasn't been done before, i'm planning on building a bullpup.can't stand those LONG rifles.i'm planning on a tube type, one piece block, with lugs on the bottom. only difference with mine is i'm using the bottom of the block to support the trigger from an xp-100 and the top will have a weaver shaped base machined or mounted on it for the scope.i'm not using a recoil lug because the bottom will have a recoil lug/lugs on it, so maybe i miscalculated, i should say mine is serving 3 more functions than yours.i'm planning on using Elmer's on mine, did i mention i didn't like the screws in the barrel?
 
Well, finally got a premiminary barrel break in finished with the big 277 and today the wind decided to die off around noon which was a suprise!! Only bad thing was that it was very dark out with heavy clouds so the chrono decided it just was not going to work today.

Still, I figured I would be able to work up in powder charge and at least try to find the limits of the 277 Allen Magnum and check the accuracy potential of this rifle.

My fireforming load consisted of 98.0 gr AA8700 under the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT. This formed cases very well but was a bit on the warm side with some of the cases. Nothing really but in a fireforming load, a bit more pressure then I wanted, still, hard to complain with sharp shoulders!!

Cleaned the rifle up after the last of the barrel break/fireforming loads and loaded up some serious loads with the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT. Seeing the pressure produced by the 98.0 gr of AA8700 under the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT, I started with 99.0 gr WC872 which has proven much slower burning then my current lot of 8700.

I also seated the bullet out to just kiss the lands with an OAL of 3.850". In the 2.700" case length, this leaves alot of that 169.5 gr ULD RBBT outside the case. In fact there is only about 0.150" of bullet shank below the case mouth. THis is by design as this rifle was designed to shoot the soon to come 185 gr ULD RBBT but also with the capabilities to use the 169.5 gr ULD RBBTs.

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Here is a pic of the new 277 Allen Mag. On the left is a 7mm Allen Mag loaded with the 200 gr ULD RBBT to fit in an H-S Precision DM system while still reaching the lands in the chamber. On the right are two 277 Allen Magnums seated to the lands in the Xtreme Sporter V-Block single shot.

Load testing started at 99.0 gr WC872 and the inital test loads went up to 103.0 gr. The first two groups were less then spectacular running right at 1" ctc.

Load 102.0 and 103.0 gr tightened up pretty well but still not where I was expecting for this rifle design.

I headed back to the bench to check primer pocket tightness. All were out of box tight still. For a reference, the 270 AM will allow around 104.0 gr WC872 under this bullet with 3400 fps velocity with top loads.

Next batch of test loads started at 104.0 gr and stopped at 107.0 gr with one grain increments. Again, as with all my inital testing I am looking for the limits of this chambering, not doing a ladder test, just want to find that point when the case and rifle tells me its time to stop.

This time, with the rifle tuned in a bit better on target I set the rifle up at 250 yards instead of 100. First group was nothing impressive again, around 2.5" to be honest.

Group 2 with 105.0 gr put the first two shots within 1/2" of each other and I was getting happier until shot three dropped out of the cluster to open things to just under 2.5". I was not very happy with the rifle or my groups.

I talked up and taped off the old bullet holes to allow the barrel to cool totally before proceeding with the next test loads. I had three rounds loaded with 106.0 gr and only one with 107.0 gr. I only had 10 formed cases to work with and again, I was more interested in finding the top end load then groups at this point, even though groups are always important.

I fired the first shot of the 106.0 gr test load. Landed where I expected it to. Shot two did not change the target any. I suspected I was getting to the point in velocity where these bullets may start coming apart due to velocity and rotational stresses.

Shot three landed just an inch away from the first shot, up and to the right but at what looked to be only an inch away. I can live with that at 250 yards I thought to myself. I figured since I only had one of the 107.0 gr loads I would throw it down range and call it a way. Again, no change on target...........

I packed everything up and drove up to the target. I was very happy to see that the two bullet holes I could see at 250 yards were actually two pairs of bullet holes. The first two shots were on top of each other as were the last two. The two pairs were 0.981" ctc. She seems to be starting to shoot.

Best thing is the primer pockets are still tight as tight can be. I have test loads staring at 108.0 gr up to 111.0 gr and will test weather permitting tomorrow. Hopefully with some chrono data as well.

Like most of the Allen Magnums, it seems we just needed some increase in pressure to get things to settle down. With 20 rounds down the pipe it was time to give the rifle a total cleaning which is where it currently is, soaking in solvent.

Will report on more results weather permitting tomorrow. My plan is to get the top end load figured out, and then select a somewhat less then max load and do some 800 and 1000 yard testing before the 277 AM heads north to its new home. We will see what happens. If I can make it work I will report how she does.

All for now!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
[ QUOTE ]
That throat erosion number gains and loses zeros faster than the seahawks get a bad call

[/ QUOTE ]
did the seahawks get a bad call? i thought the instant replay made things fair. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Steelers got the breaks that Championship teams always seem to get. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I find it kind of interesting.. they use the same material in the barrels, as the Formula 1 cars use in their engines.
 
Hope the weather in Montana is good today and the the brown truck brings you a keg of good stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
TO all,

Well, the last couple days I have been able to give the 277 AM a little bit more of a work out. After some quick load developement, I settled on a comfortable load producing 3430 fps with the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT. This is about the tops that I can get in the 30" barrel with WC872. With the 185 gr ULD RBBT, I suspect the larger case volume of the 277 AM will show a larger velocity margin over the 270 AM but for my testing this load looked good.

After getting the load development finished I was waiting for a good day to do some long range testing. I wanted +1/2 mile test results to prove this rifle but for the last three weeks the wind has been terrible in my area, averaging 22 mph over a 3 week period and this weekend was supposed to be the same.

Only problem is I need to get this rifle shipped soon and the weather man was reporting a major drop in temps this week, down to the -10 degree range so I figured wind or not I had to test now.

Friday night I called my dad and asked him if he wanted to help me test a new rifle design and round at long range and he was more then willing to join me for some field testing. We packed up and headed out to the range 10:00 am the next morning and the wind was blowing VERY hard, averaging 25 mph with gusts going to the 30-35 mph range.

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This is a pic from our shooting position 920 yards away from three water filled one gallon milk jugs. Generally I shoot off the rims but the above mentioned winds made this simply impossible so we set up in the lower creek bottom and winds were in the 15-20 mph range from out 10 o'clock position.

Having only zeroed the rifle at 100 yards it took a couple shots to get close to the targets and then I told dad to take three shots with the same hold. I was not overly concerned with hitting the jug, I just wanted to see what consistancy the rifle would produce in these conditions with the same hold taken for each shot.

I really wanted to see how someone not really experienced at long range shooting could shoot this rifle design. Not that Dad is not a fine shot, just more a traditional shooter, 300-400 yards is long range to him and he preferrs to get game to these ranges or closer which is great, he is quickly realizing he can reach out much farther though with fine consistancy. This is proven by this three shot group he shot in 20 mph variable winds!!

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This group measured just shy of 6" ctc for the three shots!!

Having not shot the rifle yet and only having one round left, dad wanted me to take the last shot telling me to bust one of those **** jugs!!

Well, I will not say it was luck in any way but I was able to sit there and watch dad shoot and watch his bullets land for several shots. Using that information, it was not much of a challange and water spilled at the shot.
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Was not a center hit, bullet landed on the center bottom edge of the jug but at 920 yards I will take it for a quality hit!! Especially in those conditions.

We packed up and drove over to the target to pick up our target and played with a newly aquired Magnum Research 50 Action Express revolver. We were shooting the great 440 gr WFNGC Cast Performance bullet loaded to 1350 fps. Pretty stout loading. Being a longer range nut I always have to push things a bit. So after we spilled some water at 30 yards, I targeted a rock at 190 yards. The big revolver placed three shots in the human sized rock easily. Two on the left edge and the last dead centered the rock!! I was impressed. This was with open sights.

Then I got cocky and targeted a similiar size rock at a measured 320 yards. At this range the big bullets were obviously unstable because getting consistant hits was impossible. No way it could have been my shooting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

We headed home happy with all the results and very wind blown.

This morning I woke up and it was 42 degrees, sunny, and dead calm!! I asked my wife is she wanted to do some 1000 yard shooting as she had never shot at this range before and wanted to start this summer with a heavy 6.5mm AM that I am in the process of building her. She agreed and again we packed everything up and headed up to the range. This time much earlier though hoping to beat the wind.

We got to within 3 miles of the turn off to our property and the winds hit!! Not as bad as the day before but still pretty stiff. By the time we set up the targets and drove back to the the spot we wanted to shoot we were again dealing with 10-15 mph winds.

Still we were there and wanted to see what the rifle would do with her as pilot. My wife is a fine shot, in fact I have to really pay attention of she will make me look silly with my own rifles!! AS such I knew she would not have a problem shooting but having never shot past 400 yards she was a bit intimidated at the idea of shooting at 1000 yards.

I ranged the target jug at 1006 yards and plugged the data in the Exbal program. It stated the proper hold would be 4 1/4 mil which with the TMR was perfect because there are 1/4 tick between the forth and bottom post.

We lined the rifle up and she took the proper hold. It took a few shots to get the windage right but the vertical hold was dead on the money!! Once we got within a foot of the target jug. I again instructed her to take the same hold for the next three shots and see what kind of group she could ver in the swirling winds. The first two shots landed very close, on center vertically but about 1 foot to the right of the jug. Shot three dropped to what appeared to be a few inches low and to the left of the first two, I was thinking a 1/2 moa group so far. We had three rounds left so I asked her if she wanted to try to hold another two shots in with those and make a tight 5 shot group at 1000 yards. She agreed!! The fourth shot landed a bit high and a bit to the left but still very nice. Shot five landed right under the first two shots!!

I was impressed.

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She had wanted me to shoot the last shot and see if I could hit the jug again as I told her what had happened the day before with the last shot. This time though, my bullet landed about 2" to far to the right and no water was spilled!!

We drove up to the target rock and rough measured the group she had shot. It was a bit under 7.5" tall and just shy of 9" wide. Four of the five shots were in a 7.5"x5" group. In these conditions at +1000 yards I was very happy with the shooting of my wife, the performance of the rifle and the wind bucking ability of the Wildcat Bullets. All in all a very successful two days of testing. Although relatively short, very impressive in these conditions.

Obviously in good shooting conditions, a mature Canadian Whitetail will be in serious trouble out to well past 1200 yards easily!!

So for this project, its all finished but the shipping. Onto the next rifle to test!!

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Kirby:

Sounds like everything is going as planned, and expected. Sounds like another winner. I'm glad it all came together so well for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A little bit of ideal conditions and no wind and I'd be interested to see how well it shoots at 1000.

Don't know why you have to ship it yet??? I doubt that Richard is in much of a rush to get his hands on it so you might as well keep it another month or two and maybe even ship it to Washington for some more testing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would imagine that poor ol' Richard is chomping at the bit to get his hands on this one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I find it interesting to see the results you have with people shooting it for the first time. I had the same type of results and reactions by several people when I let them shoot my APS 7mm AM. It sure makes it easy for them to do something they had previously thought they couldn't do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You'll probably have to get mama's 6.5 AM done a little sooner now that she's found out how fun it is at long ranges.
 
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