NEW 7 SHERMAN SHORT TACTICAL (SST)

[SteelBanger]

Well I popped that new TT Diamond trigger in last night and BANG! Lit up 2 primed cases without fail and left a nice strong dent in the primer cup. I'll be calling TT this morning to get a replacement going for my Special trigger. As much as I'd like to keep this Diamond the added cost isn't worth it to me for this rifle. Checking with my buddy to see if I can get out to his place tomorrow morning to shoot some fire forming loads and get some velocity data.

 

[archangel485]

Well I popped that new TT Diamond trigger in last night and BANG! Lit up 2 primed cases without fail and left a nice strong dent in the primer cup. I'll be calling TT this morning to get a replacement going for my Special trigger. As much as I'd like to keep this Diamond the added cost isn't worth it to me for this rifle. Checking with my buddy to see if I can get out to his place tomorrow morning to shoot some fire forming loads and get some velocity data.

Excellent! I mean, that you know what the issue is. Bummer you had to go through so much pain to get there and that you're not done yet.

 

[SteelBanger]

If nothing else it was a great learning experience so not all is lost ... but yeah I'm super excited to finally push some lead with this thing!!

 

[SteelBanger]

Well, about 8 months after I originally planned to shoot this thing it finally all came together yesterday! I was able to get out and shoot at 100y and ended up putting 29 rounds down the tube. I started with 10 rounds with 58gr of H1000 to go through a break in / cleaning routine, then shot a low end ladder with H1000 and another low end ladder with RL26. I was hoping to find a decent node in the low end of the range to use when fire-forming the rest of my 200 cases. All of these rounds were just into the lands - something recommended by my smith when fire-forming.

Here's the 9 round ladder of H1000. You might notice I'm missing the 58.8 charge, that's because I got ahead of myself and chambered that round right after the previous shot instead giving the chamber a minute to cool down and when I tried to pull it out the bullet stuck in the lands and spilled the powder everywhere. Overall though the rifle shot lights out with H1000. Shots 1 and 2 were right after my final cleaning cycle so if you consider those fouling shots I couldn't ask for better grouping ... with .2 gr increments no less! I think i'll load up some more at 59.7 and continue fire-forming and see how those do.

Here's the 10 shot ladder of RL26, not as nice of a grouping but that's not important with a ladder. Shots 7,8, and 9 have the best vertical dispersion and also look good on the velocity spread so I may do a .1gr ladder from 56.2 - 56.6 and see what that gets me, or just pick somewhere in the middle and load em up and see what I get.

Ultimately I want to get these 180's up to 2,900+ so we'll see how that looks once I get through fire-forming ... but I'm not sure I see myself being patient enough to fire-form all 200 before trying to crank the velocity up!

 

[archangel485]

Finally got mine out last night for some long range testing of my model. Took a good friend with me to help spot, and we found a nice fairly square half mil rock at 1578. We've had some fairly warm 30s-40s weather so everything is wet right now with the melted snow so impacts are hard to spot when they're in the mud, but we did find it after a couple no calls, and turns out my elevation model was off by about .3 mil and my windage hold wasn't quite enough (had to hold an additional half mil, total of 2). After making those adjustments I was able to make a handful of hits on the half mil rock (roughly 28"x28"), last hit was dead center, after a couple hits, we found another rock at 1814, slightly larger, about a 36"x36" rock, and again had to adjust elevation from the model about .5 mil. Then made 2 hits on the rock, about as close to center as I could dream to be. I then let my friend send several rounds and he also made hits at the same ranges. All in all sent about 25 rounds, got enough data to fine tune my model a little, then I'll go try it again.

 

[SteelBanger]

Man I wish I had access to that kind of distance! What load and velocity were you getting? And what scope? I have a gen 1 vortex viper 6-24x on mine but I'm thinking about upgrading it to the gen 2, the gen 2 3-15x I have on another rifle is noticeably better glass. Just can't decide if I want to go with the 3-15x or 5-25x ... I generally like to keep the low end around 3-4x on a hunting rifle.

I finished all the case prep on the rest of my 200 cases last night and got them all primed and ready to go. Might have some time again on Saturday to get out and shoot a little more but I'm not sure yet. Same conditions around here, everything is a sloppy mess from all the snow melting off so getting out to put targets up kind of sucks!

 

[archangel485]

I ended up at 61 grains, I think my velocity is 2900, but I have to "audit" my ballistics program and will tweak velocity in there based on my field results if needed. I was hitting high, so it could be that my velocity is a tad low in the model, or it could be that I just need to use the G7 model rather than the 4DOF model, TBD. I have a Sightron SVSS ED (I know, what's that), but I had this strange obsession with the SIII models (still have a couple on hunting rifles) so when an SV ED came available for a good price I snagged it. It is 4.5-24x. I tend to run around 10-16x at these types of ranges for shooting but the upper end is nice for 100 yard zeroing. Going from the SIII to the SV gave me a few changes I was seeking:

1) I went from regular to ED glass (definitely the least valuable thing that happened based on my perception, I was expecting this to be a bigger percieved difference than it was)
2) I went from MOA to mils, something I've been wanting to do for a while due to the people I compete with all being in mils
3) I went from 30mm to 34mm tube (more light and more elevation).
4) I went from 70MOA to 120MOA of elevation adjustment (huge increase due to lower magnification range and increased tube size)

As mentioned, the ED glass is good glass, but honestly I can barely tell a difference. I have excellent vision, usually runs around 20/15 when I get it tested and I still have the "young" eyes that focus quickly, maybe later the glass will mean more to me, but right now I would say that glass alone would not be enough to motivate me to change from an SIII to an SV. Granted the SIII glass is superb.

That said, I think IF you're going to change scopes (nothing wrong with a gen 1 viper) maybe you look at more upgrades than just going gen1 to gen2, I believe your only difference really would be glass quality, and I'd say that's probably marginal at best. I suspect that the change might not be in proportion to the amount of money you'll have to pay to make it happen. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[SteelBanger]

Looking back through the thread Rich thought the max with RL26 would be 60-61gr so you're right there, sounds like you're not getting any pressure signs yet though? 2,900 is where I want to be, any higher would just be gravy so your early data is encouraging.

I definitely don't need to upgrade the Viper, it's just that switching back and forth between the gen 1 and gen 2 I really prefer the gen 2. My eyes have always been 20/20 but the eye doc has told me for years that I have stigmatisms in both eyes that are correcting my far-sitedness ... or something like that. I don't really understand what he says but basically I have two issues with my eyes that are cancelling each other out and making my eyes perfect, but as I age that will start to go downhill. He always told me it starts going south around 40 years old and he pretty well nailed it, I turned 40 last year and have started to notice a really small decline. Still really good, but I can tell it's not quite what it used to be and it will only get worse to the point of glasses / contacts but hopefully that's still a few years out at least.

Anyway, I love the Viper scopes, at that price point I think they're really hard to beat. I'd love to get into a Mark5 or something, the NX8 2.5-20x looks appealing but have read several marginal reviews on the eyebox, but really, the ZCO 4-20x if I allowed myself to dream. lol That sightron looks pretty nice as well and I like the idea of a 34mm tube. Unfortunately I'd like to keep my budget under 1k ... too many other projects and builds in the works. I'm thinking about selling the 6.5CM AR-10 I built to fund some other projects, I never realized how heavy that thing would be but I just never want to pull it out of the safe and I'm not really one to amass a collection (of anything) just to have them. If I'm not actively using / enjoying them then I don't see the purpose of having them, with a few exceptions. I know ... not a popular position to have in the 2A community but I'm a bit of a minimalist by nature. Any scope recommendations to compare to the Gen 2 viper in the sub 1k range?

 

[archangel485]

No pressure signs at all, 61 was the top of my ladder test and just happened to be a node, never went higher and don't feel the need to with the way it's shooting. Of course I have to say, just because mine doesn't have pressure has no bearing on yours, work up your load for your components and chamber, of course. One thing I forgot to list when I went from SIII to SV I also got FFP, nice for when someone is helping you call out how many mils off you were, but otherwise my SFP SIII was fine (note SIIIs can also come in FFP, I just didn't).

Anyways, on sub $1k scopes, Sightron SIII LOL! They're usually about $800, sometimes you can find a sale. I believe the Viper PST would be under $1k, and would be a bit more of an improvement over the Viper, glass wise. If you were willing to go just a touch higher there are quite a few good options I think. A scope that I hear good things about over and over again is the Athlon Ares ETR. It's 4.5-30x, 34mm tube, ED glass, FFP, it's been out long enough that tracking has been thoroughly vetted (always a concern with Chinese scopes), has 32 mil of elevation adjustment, runs about $1200 any day, sometimes you can find an open box one for like $1100. Doug at cameraland might be able to do a better deal than $1200 if you call him. If I didn't come across this Sightron that Athlon would have been what I went with. Burris XTR II series also has some in that range I think.

 

[archangel485]

I did some looking and tweaking and auditing. I had my bore height set incorrectly (off by a lot) 3" when it was supposed to be 2". That makes a difference but not massive on the drop data, especially not much of a difference way out there. Also I played with the model a bit and compared to the data I got from the field, and it seems my bullets are following the regular G7 model for the factory advertised G7 BC of 0.349. So I'm going to go with the G7 model using my Kestrel. I'm going to give it another try, will be a lot colder this week but hopefully can still find a day to get out and give it a try.

 

[SteelBanger]

That's a funny coincidence as this past weekend I was doing the same thing since I couldn't get out and actually shoot. I had my scope height at 2.5" instead of the 2" it should have been. Hoping to get it out to 600y here within the next week or two.

 

[archangel485]

Quite a bit has happened since my last post. After I got through all my brass for a first firing I ended up having to back down my load a bit, as it was getting much faster. The plan was to use this rifle in the Nightforce ELR match (and I did) so I didn't want the hottest load ever as the last thing I want is overpressure issues during a match. Good thing I went this route as it was hot, 90+ both days with not a cloud around. Anyways, couldn't be happier with this cartridge, performance is superb, I will be sticking with this cartridge for a long time. I only wish Hornady had a custom drag model for the 180 Hybrid for 4DOF. I guess I'll have to create my own with data.

As an aside, something I tested thoroughly that I actually got as a tip from another thread, I find that I get about 2 thousandths average runout when sizing brass. However if I size in two steps I get less than a thousandth average from my honed Forster die. Basically I run the brass until half the neck has been sized, pull it back down, then up again.

I wish Rich all the best in his endeavors, as he really has done the shooting community a big service in my opinion. I've run into a few people shooting SAUMS, and asked them out of curiosity how they seat their bullets, they either seat the bullets super deep or run them in a long action. My one issue with Rich's cartridges vs SAUM is sheer volume of available parts, especially barrels, basically lots of gunsmiths have a SAUM reamer, very few have a Sherman. Luckily I found a barrel maker that worked for me quite well. I think that will improve with time, and Rich has done a great job of pushing his wildcat well beyond the realm of a typical wildcat. With head stamped brass and dies available, it's almost not a wildcat.

Anyways, if you've thought about a short action magnum, SAUM seems to be the default choice, but do yourself a favor and research Rich's options before you commit. There are some very big advantages to his cartridges.

 

[elkaholic]

Quite a bit has happened since my last post. After I got through all my brass for a first firing I ended up having to back down my load a bit, as it was getting much faster. The plan was to use this rifle in the Nightforce ELR match (and I did) so I didn't want the hottest load ever as the last thing I want is overpressure issues during a match. Good thing I went this route as it was hot, 90+ both days with not a cloud around. Anyways, couldn't be happier with this cartridge, performance is superb, I will be sticking with this cartridge for a long time. I only wish Hornady had a custom drag model for the 180 Hybrid for 4DOF. I guess I'll have to create my own with data.

As an aside, something I tested thoroughly that I actually got as a tip from another thread, I find that I get about 2 thousandths average runout when sizing brass. However if I size in two steps I get less than a thousandth average from my honed Forster die. Basically I run the brass until half the neck has been sized, pull it back down, then up again.

I wish Rich all the best in his endeavors, as he really has done the shooting community a big service in my opinion. I've run into a few people shooting SAUMS, and asked them out of curiosity how they seat their bullets, they either seat the bullets super deep or run them in a long action. My one issue with Rich's cartridges vs SAUM is sheer volume of available parts, especially barrels, basically lots of gunsmiths have a SAUM reamer, very few have a Sherman. Luckily I found a barrel maker that worked for me quite well. I think that will improve with time, and Rich has done a great job of pushing his wildcat well beyond the realm of a typical wildcat. With head stamped brass and dies available, it's almost not a wildcat.

Anyways, if you've thought about a short action magnum, SAUM seems to be the default choice, but do yourself a favor and research Rich's options before you commit. There are some very big advantages to his cartridges.

Thank you so much for your kind words! Im glad you are enjoying your build.

 

[archangel485]

Thank you so much for your kind words! Im glad you are enjoying your build.

Enjoying it thoroughly. 180 Hybrids, I settled on 3016fps for my model (based on drops) and in a short action. That's more velocity than I'm getting with my 7mag for the same weight of bullets. Rifle was overall what most would classify as a budget build (pre-fit barrel from PBB, KRG Bravo, Bighorn Origin, Harris bipod etc) but didn't matter, performance was still stellar and the rifle was able to compete really well. I ended up in the top 40, which for me is just stellar, couldn't have done much better honestly. Smacking targets at 1200-1500 at the match was incredibly rewarding.