apexmtnman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2008
- Messages
- 114
And for those that don't like a belt you just don't know how to set up your reloading dies.
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This is the best statement I have ever heard.All aspects of the new cases are better, steeper shoulder angle, longer case neck, more efficient case design
I don’t see Rich using these old belted magnums for his cartridges and for good reason
I could be driving a 1950s designed truck but nope I like the new design truck, same thing with new more efficient designed cartridges, I like them.
This is the best statement I have ever heard.
You LIKE them, so they MUST be BETTER.
What a joke.
There is absolutely NOTHING that any NEW cartridge can do that the 264 has not been doing since 1958.
Also, the 264 has no trouble with a 9” twist stabilising 140gr bullets. ANY 140gr bullets.
Another thing that you have stated as your BELIEF is that non belted cartridges hold more powder. Show me how an ‘06 case holds more powder, or a 222 case for that matter.
I have cartridges that are much larger than belted magnums, but are they MAGNUMS?
I have 416 Rigby based 338-416 Rigby Improved with 45 degree shoulder, 404 Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs, none are MAGNUMS. Just different cartridges.
Your beliefs DO NOT make things FACT.
Cheers.
Nostalgia!If I didn't own either a 264 Win or one of the new 6.5 mags, what would be the compelling reason to purchase the old one?
...and if I find nostalgia less than compelling?Nostalgia!
Just a comment! I have a soft spot for great old cartridges.....264 WM and 257 Roberts being my favorites....I’ve shot both over 40 years and grew up with my Dad shooting the 264 since they were first produced....late 50s or early 60s....and if I find nostalgia less than compelling?
There is absolutely NOTHING that any NEW cartridge can do that the 264 has not been doing since 1958.
Apparently everything has to be laid out very carefully for you, so I'll help out. A non-belted case will have a greater internal case capacity when compared to a belted case with the same rim and case head diameter, assuming comparable case taper and body lengths are used in both cases. Example: a 300 PRC has a greater internal case capacity than a 300 Win Mag despite the 300 Win Mag having a longer case body. A 30 Nosler wouldn't be an accurate comparison since it uses a larger head diameter.Another thing that you have stated as your BELIEF is that non belted cartridges hold more powder. Show me how an ‘06 case holds more powder, or a 222 case for that matter.
The 264 Win Mag was the 6.5 Creedmoor of it's time. It was all just marketing hype, the belt included since at that time magnums had to have a belt to be cool. There were other cartridges out there before the 264 Win Mag that offered comparable performance. Winchester was just the Hornady of the day and sold people on marketing hype to move more product. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's foolish to believe that it's anything more than that. As far as the applying the term magnum, that's just a meaningless word added on to cartridge names. Again, just marketing hype.I have cartridges that are much larger than belted magnums, but are they MAGNUMS?
I have 416 Rigby based 338-416 Rigby Improved with 45 degree shoulder, 404 Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs, none are MAGNUMS. Just different cartridges.
Your beliefs DO NOT make things FACT.
Cheers.
Have you tried loading a 26 nosler, or 28 nosler, 7 rum, or 300 rum, mild? If you go too low in that big of a case, you hit pressure spikes because there is too much air in the case so the powder all ignites at once and burns almost instantly instead of throughout the barrel. The 264 can be loaded mild for low recoil, or can be loaded hot and almost keep up with the big 6.5's. And the brass doesn't cost $2.50 a piece! If money is not an issue and you specifically want to push heavy 6.5 bullets as fast as possible, the 26 nosler is great. The 264 can satisfy a wider range of loads at a MUCH lower costSolid question, why push a 264 if you could load a 26 Nosler mild for the same speeds
Have you tried loading a 26 nosler, or 28 nosler, 7 rum, or 300 rum, mild? If you go too low in that big of a case, you hit pressure spikes because there is too much air in the case so the powder all ignites at once and burns almost instantly instead of throughout the barrel. The 264 can be loaded mild for low recoil, or can be loaded hot and almost keep up with the big 6.5's. And the brass doesn't cost $2.50 a piece! If money is not an issue and you specifically want to push heavy 6.5 bullets as fast as possible, the 26 nosler is great. The 264 can satisfy a wider range of loads at a MUCH lower cost
That's so easy dispute it's almost not worth doing, but I will anyways. I'd like to buy a box of factory loaded 264 Win Mag ammo loaded with a 140gr bullet at over 3200 fps.
Apparently everything has to be laid out very carefully for you, so I'll help out. A non-belted case will have a greater internal case capacity when compared to a belted case with the same rim and case head diameter, assuming comparable case taper and body lengths are used in both cases. Example: a 300 PRC has a greater internal case capacity than a 300 Win Mag despite the 300 Win Mag having a longer case body. A 30 Nosler wouldn't be an accurate comparison since it uses a larger head diameter.
The 264 Win Mag was the 6.5 Creedmoor of it's time. It was all just marketing hype, the belt included since at that time magnums had to have a belt to be cool. There were other cartridges out there before the 264 Win Mag that offered comparable performance. Winchester was just the Hornady of the day and sold people on marketing hype to move more product. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's foolish to believe that it's anything more than that. As far as the applying the term magnum, that's just a meaningless word added on to cartridge names. Again, just marketing hype.
It's kind of funny when you see that many of the same folks who hate Hornady for using hyperbole to market new products will cling so desperately to a cartridge sold using the same technique 60 years ago.