I always full length size my brass, but now I'm wanting to try neck sizing because I have heard you can get better accuracy this way. All my dies are rcbs but I was thinking of getting a lee collet neck sizing die. Are these any good? My loads are not hot so how often does one think I will have to full length size again. Thanks
Never neck sized before
- Thread starter Goobie270
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Beneviolence
Active Member
I am just starting out with neck sizing for my Tikka 308. I only shoot that brass through that rifle. Unless I'm mistaken, you are supposed to full length resize when extraction/bolt-lift becomes relatively more difficult. You also need to monitor your brass length to make sure you're not increasing pressure by hitting the end of the throat and unintentionally 'crimping'. I think the Lee collet neck size die is known for a very good result, so long as you set it up properly. It can leave impression marks if you go too hard. One advantage for neck sizing is for longer brass life as you're not repeatedly plastically deforming the brass back and forth.
Some people suggest using a custom die for 'bumping' the shoulder 0.001-0.002" but I haven't had the need for that (yet perhaps).
I saw this video recommended earlier and found it to be quite helpful (as well as the second one): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTUgytUGnM
I'm interested to see what others say as well.
Some people suggest using a custom die for 'bumping' the shoulder 0.001-0.002" but I haven't had the need for that (yet perhaps).
I saw this video recommended earlier and found it to be quite helpful (as well as the second one): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTUgytUGnM
I'm interested to see what others say as well.
Engineering101
Well-Known Member
Neck sizing obviously works less of the brass than full length resizing. However that isn't what causes me to lose brass. Most of my brass losses are to loose primer pockets. Also it isn't extraction that is the problem it is chambering a round which gets progressively more difficult each time you only neck size. I also don't believe you will notice an increase in accuracy if you neck size only. I've done it both ways and I've not seen a difference. I usually full length resize and my rifles shoot better than I can shoot them. If you neck size only you risk having chambering issues at an inopportune moment. Yes you can avoid that by running all your neck resized brass through the rifle but that is a pain in itself. Having said all this - go ahead and neck size, it won't really hurt anything and you might learn something.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
You will enjoy very good brass life by neck sizing. But proper FL die setup will yield the same results.
Setting it up to FL size back to minimum specs will quickly stretch the brass and it will fail prematurely.
As far as accuracy, you can get very good accuracy from neck sizing, but I don't believe you will get better accuracy than proper full length sizing.
It's kind of complicated to explain, but neck sizing only will not allow the case to self center off of the shoulder of the chamber. When a piece of brass is fireformed to a chamber, it technically would have to be inserted into the chamber oriented the same every time to realize the benefits of a case that's been bumped .001-.002".
The space allows the case to float in the chamber and center itself with the shoulder angle. Also you won't ever change the dimensions of your cases, that was used to work up your loads..
Benchrest shooters realized this and most FL size.
Plus, the ease of bolt cycling and chambering is desired for quick follow up shots.
Setting it up to FL size back to minimum specs will quickly stretch the brass and it will fail prematurely.
As far as accuracy, you can get very good accuracy from neck sizing, but I don't believe you will get better accuracy than proper full length sizing.
It's kind of complicated to explain, but neck sizing only will not allow the case to self center off of the shoulder of the chamber. When a piece of brass is fireformed to a chamber, it technically would have to be inserted into the chamber oriented the same every time to realize the benefits of a case that's been bumped .001-.002".
The space allows the case to float in the chamber and center itself with the shoulder angle. Also you won't ever change the dimensions of your cases, that was used to work up your loads..
Benchrest shooters realized this and most FL size.
Plus, the ease of bolt cycling and chambering is desired for quick follow up shots.
Beneviolence
Active Member
Partly for the sake of discussion, but I would disagree that a FL sizing would have the same brass life as neck sizing. When the FL sizing die compresses the neck, it does so much more significantly than a neck sizing die, and is brought back to shape with the expander upon bringing the brass out. You're doing fairly drastic amounts of plastic deformation every time by FL sizing the neck. This is assuming you have case failure at the neck and you're using FL size dies that do the above method.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
Neck failure is not the most common failure when FL sizing. It's usually a case head separation, where the case stretches just above the case web enough to separate, and that's because the die isn't set up
properly.
Annealing every three firings or so, will eliminate the neck problem.
You can use whichever method you want. I have used both and found no benefit to neck sizing, including no benefit in brass life. Proper FL die setup will yield as much brass life as neck sizing. This has been tested by me firing thousands of rounds per year from several different rifles, to include belted cartridges and non belted.
Many people just neck size, and they swear by it...no big deal. But to say it extends brass life and better accuracy is only true if the FL die is NOT set up properly..
And..... When the cases get a little harder to chamber, the crush fit feel... You could be damaging your bolt lugs by galling them. You are using the bolt to basically size the case to fit. The tight fit will squeegee the lube/grease from the lugs.
properly.
Annealing every three firings or so, will eliminate the neck problem.
You can use whichever method you want. I have used both and found no benefit to neck sizing, including no benefit in brass life. Proper FL die setup will yield as much brass life as neck sizing. This has been tested by me firing thousands of rounds per year from several different rifles, to include belted cartridges and non belted.
Many people just neck size, and they swear by it...no big deal. But to say it extends brass life and better accuracy is only true if the FL die is NOT set up properly..
And..... When the cases get a little harder to chamber, the crush fit feel... You could be damaging your bolt lugs by galling them. You are using the bolt to basically size the case to fit. The tight fit will squeegee the lube/grease from the lugs.
I agree with other posters that neck sizing can help prevent overworking the brass. There are other factors to consider:
If a neck sizer with a bushing is used you can decide the neck tension. Typical FL sizers with a ball create a neck diameter .003" smaller than a loaded round. This may be good for heavy recoiling rifles. Some rifles shoot better with less neck tension.
Uniform neck wall thickness must be considered when neck sizing. No point in sizing from the outside of the neck as this condition would cause different neck tensions.
A compromise for varying neck wall thickness would be to use a bushing die with a sizer ball. The bushing would minimally reduce the OD of the neck and the sizer ball would compensate for variances in neck wall thickness helping to mitigate the issue of neck tension.
If a neck sizer with a bushing is used you can decide the neck tension. Typical FL sizers with a ball create a neck diameter .003" smaller than a loaded round. This may be good for heavy recoiling rifles. Some rifles shoot better with less neck tension.
Uniform neck wall thickness must be considered when neck sizing. No point in sizing from the outside of the neck as this condition would cause different neck tensions.
A compromise for varying neck wall thickness would be to use a bushing die with a sizer ball. The bushing would minimally reduce the OD of the neck and the sizer ball would compensate for variances in neck wall thickness helping to mitigate the issue of neck tension.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I am a full length sizing guy. For all the reasons that have been stated. I will add that given the choice between the two methods there is less that can go wrong with fl sizing. Reducing the possibility of problems adds up to better overall performance.
My .02
Steve
My .02
Steve
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Goobie270, success one way or the other depends on your plan.
What cartridge are you planning to size?
What cartridge are you planning to size?
It's for a remington 308 milspec. I have been shooting lapua pulma brass. It will shoot under 1/2 moa if I do my part, but was thinking what's best as far as resizing. My 223 brass has always been fl sized and lasted lots of firings, just wondered about neck sizing for better accuracy if possible.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
A 308 is not conducive to NS only. You'll have to bump the low angle shoulders, and unless the chamber is tight in the body, you'll eventually have to body size. And of course partial neck sizing.
FL sizing includes FL sizing of necks(don't ever do this).
For best fit and lasting of your brass, I'd order a custom body-bushing die(usually merchandised as FL-bushing die), made from your fire formed/unsized cases.
FL sizing includes FL sizing of necks(don't ever do this).
For best fit and lasting of your brass, I'd order a custom body-bushing die(usually merchandised as FL-bushing die), made from your fire formed/unsized cases.
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