Neil Jones Custom Dies ?

[SHRTSHTR]

I am not trying to argue anyones point or logic here, or hijack this post....curious about others results and tests is all.

SBruce,
I am glad you are apart of this topic! I wish I had someone to teach me reloading and competition shooting. Anything I know about longrange hunting, I have pretty much learned here and through people on this board.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

Joel,

I agree with you whole heartedly about Neil Jones. I have never heard anything bad about his dies. I am just making sure I do things right.

I am glad you have his dies and do anneal. I just annealed 10 cases (another 1st) and setup the NJ dies. To no surprise, they sized perfectly with a little bonus!

I have neck turned all my brass to .014 wall thickness. Needed to for tight neck. My loaded round measures .366 diameter. I used the .363 bushing Neil supplied. The neck are very consistent at .3638 diameter. So I will have .0022 neck tension . Also had .0003 runout after sizing 10 cases with his dies!

I don't know but I do not think I will have any problem annealing and using the bushings supplied. I am used to neck sizing and bumping the shoulder back when needed. With Neils dies, I am full length sizing but to my reamer spec's. If I decide I need more neck tension, I can drop down one bushing size and have .003 neck tension.

So far so good!

 

[SBruce]

SBruce,
I am glad you are apart of this topic! I wish I had someone to teach me reloading and competition shooting. Anything I know about longrange hunting, I have pretty much learned here and through people on this board.

Yes, glad to be part of it. I have recently been thinking about neck tension and ES's and the possibiliy of annealing due to the custom rifles I've got getting built.

I am pretty fortunate to have been taught some of my great uncles precision handloading methods and benchrest competition. I am glad to have had that time with him before he passed nearly 20 years ago. Alot of things he was doing were state of the art at the time, trade secrets if you will. But now with the internet and videos/dvd's and forums like this, alot of it has become somewhat common knowledge.

I've got some precision handloading DVD's, Darrell Holland and David Tubb and a couple others. I watched them and really didn't learn anything my uncle hadn't already showed me. Refreshed my memory on some things, but for the most part; I had already seen that stuff.

Annealing isn't something that any of them touched on however. Seems to be a somewhat new thing. Or maybe I was just out of touch w/ the "jones" for too long?...LoL.

If I get good enough accuracy to really reach out w/ some of these new guns, I'll probably get into annealing too. But for me, if a proposed "long range" rifle wont shoot less than 1/2 moa consistently (under good conditions and preferebly under 1/3 moa) Then I don't want it and won't keep it very long, let alone shoot it very far or need worry about a little more ES.

I guess I am a little spoiled by using the techniques my uncle taught me and having pretty good luck getting a few different factory rifles to shoot 1/2 moa out to 700 yds. Probably a little spoiled too by having 100's of very small live targets at my disposal nearly any time I get the time to engage them, and at any distance I wish to shoot from. But it's these small targets that get me to demanding the precision and accuracy that used to be considered "Benchrest Accuracy" although by todays standards, serious Benchrest is usually alot better than 1/2 moa.

If I do get into annealing, then I'll probably fork over the cash for a machine instead of trying to do it by hand/propane torch. If it's gotta be done, then it's gotta be done right and consistently correct or without variation.

Good and interesting post, Thanks.

 

[Joel Russo]

If I am figuring correctly, the .330 bushing gives you .002 tension on a .308 bullet with a .012 neck (accounting for no spring-back)?? With spring back maybe looking at only .001 neck tension??

Your calculations are correct.

My rule of thumb is that the bigger the bullet, the more neck tension you need. The slower the powder, the more neck tension you need.

I generally use .003" neck tension across the board on all my comp and hunting rifles.

When I was doing load development for the .30-.416 rifle, I started with a .330" bushing, thinking I would experiment there and then drop to the .328". Accuracy was exceptional with the .330", so that's where I left it.

I found that with the large .408 case and the 300 gr .338 bullets, anything less that .002" neck tension resulted in mild hang fires.. upping the tension to .003" created a complete burn and incredible accuracy...

So, stay with whatever tension you find works while doing load development and anneal away.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

Thanks for all the info guys! I am heading to my garage to finish annealing 90 cases.

Annealing cases is another tricky thing to do, if you have never done it. I bought two infrared guns and neither one seems to go higher than about 350 degree's. On my test cases, I let them glow Red and still could not get temp right.

I watched a bunch of video's and came up with about 8.25 seconds. My cases are just starting to run a dull red and when taken out of the water they have a blueish swirl around the necks and shoulder. I think they are ok.

This 1st time learning process is tough . I should start a thread on annealing too .

 

[SBruce]

Thanks for all the info guys! I am heading to my garage to finish annealing 90 cases.

Annealing cases is another tricky thing to do, if you have never done it. I bought two infrared guns and neither one seems to go higher than about 350 degree's. On my test cases, I let them glow Red and still could not get temp right.

I watched a bunch of video's and came up with about 8.25 seconds. My cases are just starting to run a dull red and when taken out of the water they have a blueish swirl around the necks and shoulder. I think they are ok.

This 1st time learning process is tough . I should start a thread on annealing too .

Another thread on annealing would be good, I'd like to hear more about it. Curious what methods people are using, which is easiest, which does the best job, fastest method ect. lots of pictures or videos would be really cool!!

I watched the videos by Buffalo Bob, and he made it look pretty simple without using a machine. The machines I've seen are pretty high dollar, but I am sure I haven't seen them all.

 

[Pdvdh]

if you ever needed (I have not) to skin turn the necks and remove .001" you will now have .002 neck tension, correct?

Jeff

Jeff,
Do you outside neck turn your Lapua brass to even it up?

 

[Broz]

Jeff,
Do you outside neck turn your Lapua brass to even it up?

No. not on my 338 Lapua, I have never needed to. It runs less than .001" difference and my consentricity is good.

But I do neck turn the Lapua brass for my 6mmbr. The neck on the chamber of the br is a little tight and I turn to get .0025 expansion.

Jeff

 

[jmden]

No. not on my 338 Lapua, I have never needed to. It runs less than .001" difference and my consentricity is good.

But I do neck turn the Lapua brass for my 6mmbr. The neck on the chamber of the br is a little tight and I turn to get .0025 expansion.

Jeff

I was wonder that myself as the .338 Lap brass I have seems awfully consistent. I certainly turn the necks on my 300RUM brass, however.

Jeff, since you anneal every firing, do you find your brass growing and have to trim it back quite a bit?

My experience with annealling every time with my RUM, left me trimming more than I liked. That length (brass material that I kept trimming) had to come from somewhere...somewhere the case wall is thinning to support that continued annealing and trimming. Not sure if that's an issue or not. Ended up settling on annealing every 3rd firing. (I was planning on doin the same with my 338 Lapua brass.) I would get necks showing signs of stress on 5 or so firings otherwise. Are you finding that with 338 Lap brass, Jeff?

Spotted one billy and 7 bears today. No tag for the billy. But the bears are going to take some work and time to get to and with bad weather forecast this weekend and a trip for high buck starting next week, the bears will have to wait. They're up in the hucks...perfect longrange sceneario...

 

[Broz]

Jeff, since you anneal every firing, do you find your brass growing and have to trim it back quite a bit?

My experience with annealling every time with my RUM, left me trimming more than I liked. That length (brass material that I kept trimming) had to come from somewhere...somewhere the case wall is thinning to support that continued annealing and trimming. Not sure if that's an issue or not. Ended up settling on annealing every 3rd firing. (I was planning on doin the same with my 338 Lapua brass.) I would get necks showing signs of stress on 5 or so firings otherwise. Are you finding that with 338 Lap brass, Jeff?

No, I have not seen this in my 338 LM. Most of the time I mic them all but only trim when they grow over .002". I would say I am trimming about every 3 firings and the amount is .002 to .003".

Jeff

 

[fatelvis]

I have no problem with .003" neck tension and if you ever needed (I have not) to skin turn the necks and remove .001" you will now have .002 neck tension, correct?

Actually, if you "skin" the neck and take off .001" (total reduction of neck diameter is .002"), you will wind up with .001" neck tension, when using the same bushing. You would have to remove .0005" from the neck wall to achieve .002" neck tension.