Bryan- thanks for your reply. i regularly shoot the 88s out of my 12 twist hart/rem 700; getting .1 .2 or .3 depending on me. i won the first 1000 yard match i shot in ; in 2001; with that bullet and barrel. i have a 10 twist sako , i killed a lot of deer with the 85 sierra bthp. looking forward to trying the new 87. roninflag