MOA vs MIL. In scope ajustments?

[sscoyote]

Johnny, what they're doing is using a reticle system that has stadia lines that measure (subtend) 1.05 inch per hundred yds. Now when they look at a target of known dimension at distance they bracket it between the MOA lines, and take a bracket reading, by interpolating (guessing) how many MOA lines the tgt. occupies using the decimal equivalent (3 MOA and 7 tenths to # 4). If the scope they're using is a 2nd focal plane scope (the reticle is located in the 2nd focal plane) then the optic has to be set on a certain magnification for the subtension to be correct. If it's a 1st FP scope the subtensions will remain the same as the power is changed. A 1st focal plane reticle is also refferred to as a magnifying reticle, and if u have 1 u will know it as the reticle changes size as u change the power. Most American scopes r 2nd focal plane

Subtension is a difficult concept to understand, and takes some thinking to get it right in your head (did for me at least). The best way to understand it is to get a scope that has a plex reticle in it (any multi-stadia reticle will work). Look out the window of your house at something and then change the power. U should easily see that as u lower the power the object takes up more space between any 2 stadia in the reticle, and as u increase it it takes up less space (subtension is inversely proportional to magnification--a very important concept to understand)--the reticle stays the same but the object gets smaller and larger.

 

[CS T]

I'm a mils guy it is easy for me to range with because mils are based in increments of 1, 10, and 100 nice round numbers.

Mike @ CSGW

 

[ScottBerish]

Some thoughts on the subject.

When it comes to critters, if you are going to shoot real long range, get a quality LRF. The real field difficulty in accurately ranging a critter with a reticle, as well as the potential consequences of error, make using the LRF the only way to go.

Bill, being a Florida boy for many years, and knowing the Panhandle well, I can't imagine the need for shooting a deer at past 300 yards, and on the crowded public WMAs taking longer shots would not be a wise choice.

As for the MOA/mil debate, snipers got along for many years using 1/4 MOA turrets with a mildot. If you are just getting started, "matching" reticle subtensions and turret increments certainly seems logical. But, such is not necessary for long range success. Here's a post from Vern Harrision, owner of Central Virginia Tactical and a Vietnam combat sniper veteran and master trainer. The issue was which was better, mil/Moa/matching, question was posed on Sniper's Paradise. Vern referring to MOA/mils is primarily relating to the knobs.

"I read a lot about speed and hear a lot about it as well. I hear now you have to have large ergo knobs and mil on mil. Truth is when a sniper has laid there in his firing position, usually for a good while, he has mapped out his field of fire. He knows his yardage or meter) out to every position in front of him. This should hold true in an urban position as well. If he's in a city he will still have a grid he's responsible for and will sketch out his field of fire. Knowing this he should be able to dial on target in no time.

Here at school we have timed several students dialing with either mil or moa turrets. If you know your scope it's literally tenths of seconds differences between the two. The shooter will take a lot more time in his trigger prep than he will in time it takes to dial his turrets. In a Military application the spotter will call elevation and windage, while the sniper preps for the shot. Either way it takes very little time to dial to a target.

Do I think Mils are faster? No. I've seen teams here using moa be on target faster then teams using mils. Why? Because they knew their equipment better. Knowing your equipment is everything.

So I teach, whatever your going to use, know it well. Real well. I ask my students to go home and practice laying behind the scope, locked in and using the dope they got here to dial in while dry firing. Get use to dialing while your head is down in the cheek weld. Know inside out up, down, left and right. You would be surprised at the shooters that don't know left and right on their scopes.

I'm very comfortable with either. Why? Because I have to teach both. However, being old school I still believe in one shot one kill. Not one shot adjust and second shot hit or third. I still believe in precision and with that I want to be able to dial as close to my point of aim as possible. That's why I prefer moa.

Take care, flea"

 

[Bill Maylor]

Scott, I am trying to get as much info on this subject as possible so I will be ready when my NF scope shows up. I belong to a lease 11 years now and have 7 food plots, and 7 shouting houses 10ft of the ground. This is the safest place I have ever hunted. The club rule is no one is aloud to go anywhere but their stands or your OUT without a refund... We caught a pousher once and the FL Wildlife. delt with himgun). I dont think he is aloud to hunt anymore. I have been working on one of the food plots and it is close to 900yrds and I can get more. Are club is 4000- acres. We all have our own areas. we all have food plots and feeders. This club is as safe as you can get. I am just tring to up my game for the range. My longest deer kill was about 350yrds, and it was with the 300 RUM. This is the rifle I am putting the NF on. I have used my ruger 22-250 with 100% success 220yrds and 180yrds with 55gr EXTREAM SHOCK. But my fav is my ROY257 now that is a shooter. I dont want to wound an animal, so I am geting the right equp to go beyond 350. ROY will do that, but I just want a NF. The 300 will do it justice. I will not take the shot unless I know I can make it. Bill Maylor.

 

[ScottBerish]

Scott, I am trying to get as much info on this subject as possible so I will be ready when my NF scope shows up. I belong to a lease 11 years now and have 7 food plots, and 7 shouting houses 10ft of the ground. This is the safest place I have ever hunted. The club rule is no one is aloud to go anywhere but their stands or your OUT without a refund... We caught a pousher once and the FL Wildlife. delt with himgun). I dont think he is aloud to hunt anymore. I have been working on one of the food plots and it is close to 900yrds and I can get more. Are club is 4000- acres. We all have our own areas. we all have food plots and feeders. This club is as safe as you can get. I am just tring to up my game for the range. My longest deer kill was about 350yrds, and it was with the 300 RUM. This is the rifle I am putting the NF on. I have used my ruger 22-250 with 100% success 220yrds and 180yrds with 55gr EXTREAM SHOCK. But my fav is my ROY257 now that is a shooter. I dont want to wound an animal, so I am geting the right equp to go beyond 350. ROY will do that, but I just want a NF. The 300 will do it justice. I will not take the shot unless I know I can make it. Bill Maylor.

Sounds like you have it figured out. Best of luck!

Scott

 

[foreign]

look at this
Mils and Moa Simplified

 

[Good]

This thread is full of win! Everytime I read something like this I learn something.