Mile Shot

[lightflight]

Maybe all you people that didn't believe me about cheek contact should go to 6BR accurate shooter.com and read the Daily Bulletin Richard Kings Radical f-Class Rig. Instead of calling HORSESCHITT and April Fools. Benchresters get used to it from the ground layers. Must be some kind of jealousy. There is more then one reason to do it. The heat mirage from the barrel and inconsistencies from the stock dragging can effect accuracy. But you have to remove all parallax from the scope which should be done any how. Matt

I know we had a short pm convo earlier. I did find pictures of your set up and it makes more sense to me as to why you would want to have your scope high. This does not mean that a high scope is a great all around solution. To those of us that don't have our barreled actions in a block of aluminum that is attached to a milled aluminum stand that is attached to the ground, no thanks. For most shooters that hold the rifle with their hands and shoot off a bipod or just bags it is easily veiwable as HORSESCHITT or a bad April Fools joke.

I don't think it is Jealousy.... at least not on my part.

 

[dkhunt14]

I know we had a short pm convo earlier. I did find pictures of your set up and it makes more sense to me as to why you would want to have your scope high. This does not mean that a high scope is a great all around solution. To those of us that don't have our barreled actions in a block of aluminum that is attached to a milled aluminum stand that is attached to the ground, no thanks. For most shooters that hold the rifle with their hands and shoot off a bipod or just bags it is easily veiwable as HORSESCHITT or a bad April Fools joke.

I don't think it is Jealousy.... at least not on my part.

My 17 pound regular guns are the same way. They shoot really good and my scopes are high on them. If parallax is out it doesn't matter. Now if the parallax isn't out you won't shoot good no matter where you put your head. I have broken 2 records in light gun with the scope high. I broke a six match score aggregate this year at Reade with my new light gun and that scope is high. I didn't ever say it was an all around situation all I said was you can shoot good not touching the stock and the scope high. I shoot my light guns off a regular Hart Pedestal and a small rear bag That is my hunting rig and my light guns are like a regular gun. Close to an F open rifle. You really need to go to 6BR and look at that F-Class rig in the Daily bulletin. Matt

 

[WildRose]

You are both right and the reality is somewhere in between what you two describe.

WildRose, since (I assume) we can agree that a rifle capable of shooting exactly 1" 100 round groups at 100 yards and given perfect conditions (zero wind, solid rest, no ammo or shooter variance, etc) can shoot 10" 100 round groups at 1000 yards (with proper DOPE) we can demonstrate that a bullet passing directly into our 100 yard point of aim would have hit directly in the center of our 1000 yard point of aim. However the bullet that would have landed 1/2" left of our 100 yard POI would have landed 5" left of our POI at 1000.

Thus the effects of displacement on a bullet early on do of course have effects downrange. The bullet will continue on its deviated path and from 500 yards to 1000 will have (approximately) doubled in deviation given no more external inputs such as wind.

Bigngreen, what your segmented calculation demonstrates is not that the 0-500 wind is acting more on the bullet, that is definitely false, but since the bullet has that additional 500 or 1000 yards to continue on its deviated path it will and thus the apparent effect is larger at longer distances. It's not that the wind is pushing the slower bullet less at 500-1000 yards or 1000-1500 yards, its merely that the effects of that push have less time to compound. To support your main claim your calculation would have needed to only use 0-500 yards and show that the 10mph wind affected a faster FPS bullet more.

Thank you two for the opportunity to think about this and actually improve my thinking of the effects of wind on a bullet.

Vinson

Pretty much. As I said it is both additive and cumulative.

the .4" windage error at 100yds will equal 4" at 1000 and 6" at 1500yds.

Now we add in the increasing flight times for each successive hundred yards out to 1,500 and the cumulative effect is the additional 96" of total wind adjustment.

 

[bigngreen]

Pretty much. As I said it is both additive and cumulative.

the .4" windage error at 100yds will equal 4" at 1000 and 6" at 1500yds.

Now we add in the increasing flight times for each successive hundred yards out to 1,500 and the cumulative effect is the additional 96" of total wind adjustment.

Once again your wrong, input a 100 yard 10 mph wind into a ballistics calculator and THAT 100 yards wind drift, lets us the .3 I'm getting will yield 5.3 inches at 1000 yards of wind drift and 8.1 inches at 1500 yards.

Here is the data directly from the program so you can see what a ballistics calculator is giving for a correction.

 

[bigngreen]

I'll try one more time to show you why the near wind is the wind that has the most affect on your wind trajectory, I layered the wind values every 200 yards to 1200 so you can see what each 200 yard wind adds to your total.
Each color shows what each 200 yards add to the total with the exception of track one because it defaults to 1250. Our total wind drift is 53.6 inches and any one can see that the FIRST half of the trajectory (600 yards) accounts for about 2/3rds of the wind drift.

Track 1 1000-1250 yards adds 3.1 inches.
Track 2 800-1000 yards adds 6.1 inches.
Track 3 600 -800 yards adds 8.6 inches.
Track 4 400-600 yards adds 10.7 inches
Track 5 200-400 yards adds 12 inches.
Track 6 0-200 yards adds 13.2 inches

 

[Bearwyo]

Cheek weld has nothing to do with how well your gun shoots. If a your cheek weld does not have consistent pressure on the stock from shot to shot it's going to hurt your accuracy. Easy fix no cheek weld means no pressure. So unless your shooting iron sights or you are the perfect human that makes no mistake no cheek weld is going to be your better option. Try it before you knock it. Just passing on advice that helped my accuracy.

 

[lightflight]

Cheek weld has nothing to do with how well your gun shoots. If a your cheek weld does not have consistent pressure on the stock from shot to shot it's going to hurt your accuracy. Easy fix no cheek weld means no pressure. So unless your shooting iron sights or you are the perfect human that makes no mistake no cheek weld is going to be your better option. Try it before you knock it. Just passing on advice that helped my accuracy.

I guess I am the perfect human. lightbulb Thanks for helping me get to this conclusion

 

[yobuck]

I know we had a short pm convo earlier. I did find pictures of your set up and it makes more sense to me as to why you would want to have your scope high. This does not mean that a high scope is a great all around solution. To those of us that don't have our barreled actions in a block of aluminum that is attached to a milled aluminum stand that is attached to the ground, no thanks. For most shooters that hold the rifle with their hands and shoot off a bipod or just bags it is easily veiwable as HORSESCHITT or a bad April Fools joke.

I don't think it is Jealousy.... at least not on my part.

Fact is "MOST" shooters DONT shoot as youve described. SOME do, and SOME prefer to. Thats their CHOICE and thats fine. For THEM, scope height is more important for the POSITION THEYVE CHOSEN. No doubt SOME arent even aware there are options. Maybe even BETTER options at least for certain types of locations. There is no doubt EGO plays a roll in at least SOME of our decisions. Age and experience aka "hindsite" has a way of diminishing at least some of that.
So id suggest you be on the lookout for more clay pidgeon throwers coming to
your area soon.
Not all of us use aluminum stocks, most of us use wood or composit.
The throwers arent actually fastened to the ground they just sit on it.
Unlike pickup trucks they can be easily picked up, taken apart and moved
or just slid into the pickup. So long as nobodys laying in it barking orders to the
driver to change the angle because the deer ran way over there.
I wouldnt of missed had you given me the right wind dope you dope. lol

 

[lightflight]

Fact is "MOST" shooters DONT shoot as youve described. SOME do, and SOME prefer to. Thats their CHOICE and thats fine. For THEM, scope height is more important for the POSITION THEYVE CHOSEN. No doubt SOME arent even aware there are options. Maybe even BETTER options at least for certain types of locations.

Fair statement.

 

[Bearwyo]

I guess I am the perfect human. lightbulb Thanks for helping me get to this conclusion

Hey not a problem. I guess I'm not the only perfect person in this world

 

[RMulhern]

You can see pictures of one of my guns with the scope high. The scope on this gun is 4 inches above bore. The pictures show how high the scope is. The pictures are on page 3 of the Longrange Shooting and Hunting forum. The thread is called pictures of my hunting rig. I also have 17 pound light guns with the scope mounted high and they shoot almost as good as the heavy guns. I can prove what I shot by the scored targets shot in competition. The targets don't lie. Matt

As I stated to you on another forum.....my HORSE SCHITT post was made because in reality...I thought you made your post in 'jest'! I made no comment reference your marksmanship ability! My comment was made in reference to the issue of what's conventional by many of us and our methods and I was not taking into consideration the 'unconventional'!

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

You guys can keep peeing in each other's coffee.
I'm going to go reload some 338's.

 

[fmajor]

Regardless of the previous 8-9 pages of ******* contest, that's a really great cold-bore shot in crappy wind conditions.

I got the chance to drive farther east in NC yesterday to meet up with some guys to shoot. To start off, the wind was terrible, sustained at 8-10 with gusts to 25+ with a cold front moving through and intermittent drizzle, not a great day to be attempting extreme range with a new rifle. In NC we are used to the calm winds so I already knew this was going to be a challenge but we set steel up from 500 yards out to 1760. I fired 3 fouling rounds out of my 338 Allen mag at 1200 yards into 1/2" mild steel (bad for the steel) and adjusted my scope accordingly. I then sat the gun down and we shot 260s and 308s for 3 hours. I then picked the 338 back up, dialed in for the 1760 yard plate and let it rip. First shot connected with 11 MOA wind hold. Sent 1 more round that went 2" off the right sides striking the post holding the target. Those unpredictable gusts play havoc on a 2.5 second flight time. When you think you are shooting in a lull, as soon as you touch the trigger and send it, your hat gets blown off, great NC weather in March. All in all, a fun day, really got to see how the 260s handled the wind compared to a bunch of 308s out to 1200. I don't have a picture of the 1760 target because we were getting soaked but here is the area we were shooting and the 1200 target. Shooting out of the back of the truck to get high enough to see the targets is quite cramped and not ideal, but adds a little to the challenge. Yes, I know someone will point out the scope is too high, I was sent the wrong rings and waiting on the new ones.