Jmatt
Well-Known Member
I'm the president of my local archery club and I can assure you the guns are not quiet and the range is not empty.
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May Want To Stock Up On Reloading Components
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Frank in the Laurels
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Not so in my part of the country....not only are they quiet they are basically empty...and the entire greedy reloading components industry is to blame...there's no shortage of anything I'd you want to pay !!! Disgraceful...
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
Sadly I don't think your post is incorrect. However, I don't think it's the main factor for raising prices for ammo/components.I respectfully disagree. All costs are going up always. (So are salaries) That is business. What is new is telling (gaslighting) your customers in an effort to create quick demand and an acceptance buffer.
Screw them and the rest of these lazy companies….btw, I'm normally a huge Powder Valley fan. To any company: Go to your shop floor. Open your eyes. Talk to your employees. See the waste. Fix it. Make more money.
Don't confuse this with the other message the big consultants are pumping out. Theirs is more like: Reevaluate the cost of each of your current benefits. Reduce the cost of current benefits by adjusting the cost vs benefit ratio. For example, if we subsidize you lunch by $1…..just eliminate the subsidy and allow the lunch provider to deliver more expensive premium options. Find benefit providers with higher rejection of benefit rates.
Outsource as many HR functions as possible. Fire employees through policy enforcement with a weighting related to the salary and last evaluation of the employee. Basically fire your experienced employees that are not getting your highest ratings.
The reason they are trying to pass off higher prices is probably due to the softness perceived in the demand side of the market due to the union negotiation success as well as the rest of the salary market getting a bump.
Odd H1000 has just been reduced by ~$4 per lb by Powder Valley. I wonder why they are having a sale.
Yes, prices over time increase. But, at what rate? Right now the rate of price increases are at a much higher level than salary increases. I know this to be true in my household as well as many others.
I don't think you're wrong..for the most part. However, these businesses work for the shareholders more than the consumers. That's part of the problem for us.I respectfully disagree. All costs are going up always. (So are salaries) That is business. What is new is telling (gaslighting) your customers in an effort to create quick demand and an acceptance buffer.
Screw them and the rest of these lazy companies….btw, I'm normally a huge Powder Valley fan. To any company: Go to your shop floor. Open your eyes. Talk to your employees. See the waste. Fix it. Make more money.
Don't confuse this with the other message the big consultants are pumping out. Theirs is more like: Reevaluate the cost of each of your current benefits. Reduce the cost of current benefits by adjusting the cost vs benefit ratio. For example, if we subsidize you lunch by $1…..just eliminate the subsidy and allow the lunch provider to deliver more expensive premium options. Find benefit providers with higher rejection of benefit rates.
Outsource as many HR functions as possible. Fire employees through policy enforcement with a weighting related to the salary and last evaluation of the employee. Basically fire your experienced employees that are not getting your highest ratings.
The reason they are trying to pass off higher prices is probably due to the softness perceived in the demand side of the market due to the union negotiation success as well as the rest of the salary market getting a bump.
Odd H1000 has just been reduced by ~$4 per lb by Powder Valley. I wonder why they are having a sale.
Big fat DOD contracts trump us consumers every time. Refer back to my previous post and my last paragraph. Trust me, when I say the DOD has near bottomless pockets to pay for increasing ammo prices. These ammo companies are working hard…we're just not seeing the benefits or products on the shelves.
Whose salary is going up? Minimum wage jobs are all I've seen. Another left wing crap economy decision that only raises the price of everything. Lots of folks that work for a living are in the same boat as me, feeling the squeeze. Fixed income folks are really losing to inflation and interest rates right now.
Going back to your original post…are you just not going to buy components or ammo right now to what, "stick it to the man?" When will you buy ammo or components next if this is your logic? Realistically, there's no way you could convince everyone to stop buying ammo and components to try and quell the awful supply and demand situation (if you can even call it that) we're in right now. You may say, "well, thats's the problem!" I would argue we need new leadership top down and we'll see the shelves filling again. And if/when that does happen I don't think the prices will come down again, but there will be more stuff on the shelves.
Again, no disrespect. I see things maybe differently than you do. But…if I see large rifle mag primers on the shelf…I'm going to buy them. I'm guessing 99% of the members of this forum will do the same unless they just can't afford them.
western living
Member
Vista Outdoors (Federal, Remington, CCI, Speer, Hevishot, Estate, Alliant powder), for example, has been sending notices of price increases pretty consistently over the last several years. These notices are not new. They're regular occurrences. The suppliers cannot increase prices without notifying the customer (Vista) and Vista cannot increase prices without notifying their distributors (retailers) and when the retailers get those notices, they're going to make them public so when they subsequently increase prices they're excused from some degree of suspicion for price gouging. The increases are accepted as passing on the costs to the consumer.
western living
Member
I found some Large Rifle Magnum primers at a local big chain sporting store. They're Remington 9 1/2 Magnums. They're going by the box for $9.99 with a limit of 10. I did some research and it looks like they're fairly wimpy in terms of magnum ignition and also tested as less consistent than others. I don't need more than a couple boxes for hunting, so I'm holding out for Federal 215M or Winchester LRM.
So what you're saying is, don't do your customers a service by telling them prices will be going up. Just raise them without warning and everything will be alright??
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western living
Member
I'm seeing very good powder availability at the local Sportsmans Warehouse and Powder Valley has a few things to fill in the gaps. I know some of the propellants are up there around $60/lb., but others are still in the ~$30 price range. If I need one of the expensive powders, it's probably not in mass quantity. I still have quite a few 8#'s for handgun stuff from 2019.
I'm seeing good, jacketed bullets for less than 10 cents for handgun and 223.
I'm seeing small rifle primers locally (no hazmat) for $63/brick and pistol primers for 8 cents (or 7 cents + ship/haz). I have plenty of SPP from 2019, but I've bought a few thousand primers for 223. I also recently bought a brick of Federal Gold Medal Match SPM for $69.
I'm seeing good, jacketed bullets for less than 10 cents for handgun and 223.
I'm seeing small rifle primers locally (no hazmat) for $63/brick and pistol primers for 8 cents (or 7 cents + ship/haz). I have plenty of SPP from 2019, but I've bought a few thousand primers for 223. I also recently bought a brick of Federal Gold Medal Match SPM for $69.
western living
Member
Ammo prices are definitely higher than they were before October when I could get WWB 556 for 39 cents shipped (after rebate), or Federal XM193 for 45 cents shipped. On the other hand, many reloading components are still at 3-year lows.
western living
Member
Supply is constrained because Vista, for example, flat-out refused to expand their capacity meaningfully and instead, Jason Vanderbrink blamed customers for the shortage. He's recorded in a 2019 interview claiming that Vista has excess capacity. Then Vista raised prices the next year because of the "unprecedented." But then they did it again in 2021, and in 2022, and then in 2023, and I am sure 2024 will still be unprecedented.
The unfortunate reality is that Vista has no plans to increase supply, but we can expect demand to rise sharply in the short term. No matter who wins in November, we can expect rioting, civil unrest, and domestic security concerns as a result of "election fraud" or "a threat to democracy."
Maybe we'll see another "Trump Slump" in late 2025, but demand pressures from global crises threatens to make up for whatever US consumers think they won't need yet at that point.
Even if there is a slump in demand as a result of a white house and at least half of congress unwilling to threaten gun rights, general inflation is almost certain to drive prices up in the short-term. In the long-term, it's guaranteed. Administrations of either party have recently shown an unprecedented propensity to spend. The Dems have always spent profligately, but even Trump doesn't believe the national debt matters and considers the US money supply to be unlimited.
Reloading components aren't the best inflation hedge. They do store value for a long time, but their liquidity is poor except in the most extreme circumstances.
Stocking up now would give you the option of shooting more over the next few years. If you forebear stocking up now, you will likely either spend more later or shoot less. Because shooting less is a viable alternative, I wouldn't urge anyone to stock up now. Stock up now if you want to shoot more, but there are greater priorities for most people and more meaningful goals. I wouldn't suggest prioritizing one's ability to consume ammo over things that are more important to you.
The unfortunate reality is that Vista has no plans to increase supply, but we can expect demand to rise sharply in the short term. No matter who wins in November, we can expect rioting, civil unrest, and domestic security concerns as a result of "election fraud" or "a threat to democracy."
Maybe we'll see another "Trump Slump" in late 2025, but demand pressures from global crises threatens to make up for whatever US consumers think they won't need yet at that point.
Even if there is a slump in demand as a result of a white house and at least half of congress unwilling to threaten gun rights, general inflation is almost certain to drive prices up in the short-term. In the long-term, it's guaranteed. Administrations of either party have recently shown an unprecedented propensity to spend. The Dems have always spent profligately, but even Trump doesn't believe the national debt matters and considers the US money supply to be unlimited.
Reloading components aren't the best inflation hedge. They do store value for a long time, but their liquidity is poor except in the most extreme circumstances.
Stocking up now would give you the option of shooting more over the next few years. If you forebear stocking up now, you will likely either spend more later or shoot less. Because shooting less is a viable alternative, I wouldn't urge anyone to stock up now. Stock up now if you want to shoot more, but there are greater priorities for most people and more meaningful goals. I wouldn't suggest prioritizing one's ability to consume ammo over things that are more important to you.
western living
Member
Here's the letter from 2021:
Press Release
December 21, 2021
Dear Customer:
Thank you for your business and for your continued support of American jobs and manufacturing. As we continue to see supply chain constraints and increases in our raw materials, we are increasing our pricing to help offset those rising costs.
Effective 4/1/2022, CCI, Federal, Hevi–Shot, Remington, and SPEER ammunition will take the following price increases:
Primers – 5%
Powder – 5%
Handgun – 2-8%
Rifle – 3-8%
Shotgun – 3-12%
Additionally, due to continued demand, NO new Primer orders will be accepted until further notice.
Unless you notify us to cancel an order, we will reprice all existing and future orders shipped on or after 4/1/2022 to the new prices.
You will receive your finalized price list no later than March 15th, 2022.
Thank you for your continued support of our brands and our American workforce.
Jason R. Vanderbrink
President, Ammunition
These letters are routine.
Press Release
December 21, 2021
Dear Customer:
Thank you for your business and for your continued support of American jobs and manufacturing. As we continue to see supply chain constraints and increases in our raw materials, we are increasing our pricing to help offset those rising costs.
Effective 4/1/2022, CCI, Federal, Hevi–Shot, Remington, and SPEER ammunition will take the following price increases:
Primers – 5%
Powder – 5%
Handgun – 2-8%
Rifle – 3-8%
Shotgun – 3-12%
Additionally, due to continued demand, NO new Primer orders will be accepted until further notice.
Unless you notify us to cancel an order, we will reprice all existing and future orders shipped on or after 4/1/2022 to the new prices.
You will receive your finalized price list no later than March 15th, 2022.
Thank you for your continued support of our brands and our American workforce.
Jason R. Vanderbrink
President, Ammunition
These letters are routine.
Trump 2024
Interesting. Could you post the data showing they didn't increase supply? That would be very useful. Thanks!
western living
Member
I didn't claim they didn't increase supply. They increased supply by running their existing capacity as much as they could. They didn't increase capacity. They haven't and won't because they've long held that the increase in demand is cyclical. They still believe if they increase capacity they will have a glut of supply when demand turns down and suffer the resulting hit on their earnings. They're calculating and depending on US consumer demand to decline in the long run due to increased gun and ammo restrictions, the decline of hunting culture, social shifts against gun sports, and the resulting lower sales.
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