Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
Depends on the bullet, and Mother West Wind and the Merry Little Breezes.
-
If you are being asked to change your password, and unsure how to do it, follow these instructions. Click here
Max Range
- Thread starter Cam Gillespie
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
The Oregonian
Well-Known Member
For an elk the number I have seen thrown about most is 1500 ft/lbs of energy. But like has been said, your skill is the deciding factor. I had an elk hunt last year and my max range was 500-600 depending on wind conditions and rest...that number was derived by where I could reliably and consistently hit at the range. I was comfortable at the range farther than that but I'm not going to push things on game.
The rifle was a 28N and could deliver enough energy well past that but my max range was independent of the rifle.
The rifle was a 28N and could deliver enough energy well past that but my max range was independent of the rifle.
With the 7mm Rem Mag there are hunters than can kill an elk out to 1000 yds. For me, the max I've set for my self is 500 yes. This is the distance where I can still comfortably take the shot and know that animal will go down. I am not trained to shoot beyond this distance.
Now, the ballistics of my reloads for my 7mm Rem Mag can kill an elk out to 700 or 800 yds no problem, but my ability limits me to 500 yds. Can I shoot further? Yes. Can I guarantee a clean kill? No.
It depends on the guy or gal behind the rifle and the capability of the gun and ammo.
Hope this helps
Now, the ballistics of my reloads for my 7mm Rem Mag can kill an elk out to 700 or 800 yds no problem, but my ability limits me to 500 yds. Can I shoot further? Yes. Can I guarantee a clean kill? No.
It depends on the guy or gal behind the rifle and the capability of the gun and ammo.
Hope this helps
WildRose
Well-Known Member
The one subject that is Taboo here is "ethics".
Max range is whatever range you are confident you can consistently make a clean killing shot.
nmbarta
Well-Known Member
The 7mm in the right configuration is capable well past 700, but wouldn't be my first choice for that situation.
I'll probably catch some crap saying this but, if you want to kill elk and moose past 700, get a bigger gun and make sure your **** good shot at 700 if you plan an using a 7rm It's one of my favorite rounds, but in most rifles gets questionable past that for big critters
I'll probably catch some crap saying this but, if you want to kill elk and moose past 700, get a bigger gun and make sure your **** good shot at 700 if you plan an using a 7rm It's one of my favorite rounds, but in most rifles gets questionable past that for big critters
As mentioned, a well placed shot with a bullet that pencils through is not particularly ethical. I shoot a lot of Barnes which has a cutoff of about 1800 FPS. Hence, I don't shoot farther than the bullets capabilities. A jacked bullet will likely give you more range, which is where I believe designs like the Berger's excel. That's my two cents.
In war a 22LR will kill at a mile, take the shot, for target shooting shoot as far as your real estate permits, against a trash animal (take the shot) but against a game animal (major trophy), be a better hunter get closer, be sure you can make the kill shot (the 4" target is a good standard). All the big magnums will give enough energy to kill beyond your ability to hit unless you are Elmer Keith with a 44 Magnum. My EDGE will still have over 1000 ftlb energy at a mile. I would only shoot at a trash animal or paper at that range.
In our age of LR hunting popularity it is common for hunters to attempt extreme LR shots based on practice and ballistics data. There are other variables. One very important variable is the movement of the animal. Our metal targets don't randomly take a step or get spooked by something. Another variable is your ability to locate a shooting position that secures an accurate shooting platform. Wind and elevation and temperature are also variables to consider.
I shoot a 7mm Rem mag set up for LR shooting. I'm competent on metal targets out to 1800 yards. After considering the variables for LR hunting I have set my own imposed limit at 400 yards. I don't feel too bad when I clip or miss a metal target. I feel horrible when I have been negligent and wounded an animal who will suffer and perhaps die unrecovered.
Just my own personal opinion and limitation.
I shoot a 7mm Rem mag set up for LR shooting. I'm competent on metal targets out to 1800 yards. After considering the variables for LR hunting I have set my own imposed limit at 400 yards. I don't feel too bad when I clip or miss a metal target. I feel horrible when I have been negligent and wounded an animal who will suffer and perhaps die unrecovered.
Just my own personal opinion and limitation.
azsugarbear
Well-Known Member
Lots of different things come into play when looking at my own max distance. First of all, my absolute maximum distance when hunting is the minimum down-range velocity at which my bullet will reliably expand. For most bullets, that will be around 1,800 fps. For the Long Range Accubonds, they say around 1,400 fps. Can I hit targets beyond that? Sure, but the bullet may expand or simply pencil through. If you are confident in hitting bone every time (such as the high shoulder shot) you can extend the range at which a bullet will reliably expand. This is where you own ethics come into play. Nobody can help you with this part of the decision.
Secondly, I then consider the max range at which I can consistently make first round hits into the vitals of the animal I am hunting. For me, this range is beyond my absolute range, so I cut it back to the absolute range of my bullet expansion. If my own abilities were less than the bullets absolute max range set by velocity, then I would reduce my own max range to the range of consistent hits.
Finally, my max range can be further reduced by conditions at the time of the shot. Factors such as visibility, wind (especially wind) can quickly erode the accuracy of even the best shooters.
This thought process is just what I have personally set for myself. It is based on lots of experience and practicing in field situations. I do not suggest these thoughts apply to anybody else but myself.
When first getting started you will find your max range is pretty close. But as you quickly become more proficient, your max range will extend until it finally gets limited by skill and/or technology & equipment. The important thing is to get off the bench and out into the field as soon as possible. Shooting lots of rounds in 'real world' conditions will help you shape your own ideas of what an ethical shot is for you with that specific rifle. I wish you the best of luck in this fun pursuit.
Secondly, I then consider the max range at which I can consistently make first round hits into the vitals of the animal I am hunting. For me, this range is beyond my absolute range, so I cut it back to the absolute range of my bullet expansion. If my own abilities were less than the bullets absolute max range set by velocity, then I would reduce my own max range to the range of consistent hits.
Finally, my max range can be further reduced by conditions at the time of the shot. Factors such as visibility, wind (especially wind) can quickly erode the accuracy of even the best shooters.
This thought process is just what I have personally set for myself. It is based on lots of experience and practicing in field situations. I do not suggest these thoughts apply to anybody else but myself.
When first getting started you will find your max range is pretty close. But as you quickly become more proficient, your max range will extend until it finally gets limited by skill and/or technology & equipment. The important thing is to get off the bench and out into the field as soon as possible. Shooting lots of rounds in 'real world' conditions will help you shape your own ideas of what an ethical shot is for you with that specific rifle. I wish you the best of luck in this fun pursuit.
1. Your accuracy at far distance. If you are really good shooter then....
2. Bullet performance, elevation.
3. Where you shoot elk/moose at (lungs, shoulder etc)
Colorado parks and wildlife requires 1000lbs energy left for double lung kill. Recommends 1200+. At 8000 ft elevation, 40f, 180eldm 3000fps from barrel, at 1500 yards still has ~1230 energy remaining. Theoretically, if you shoot good moa at that range, you can shoot elk in lungs. 180eldm at that range still has ~1755 fps left, which is still good for expansion, as eldm expands down to 1500-1600fps.
1500 energy remaining is old school number, and dont really need that much. I seen elk taken with 147 eldm 6.5 CM from 1250 yards, bullet only had ~850 energy left, hit elk in the spine and it dropped right there on the spot.
So yeah, stop listening to those who say you need 1500 energy, and 50 bmg for elk and 300 grain bullet or so. A lot of elk taken with ~140-150 grains, 7mm08. For those who hunt at elevation, even 7mm rem mag is overkill. 7mm08 shooting 162eldm with muzzle velocity of ~2720 at higher elevation is 800 yard elk rifle EASILY. 1940 fps and 1353 energy left. Put it right behind the crease, right there in lungs, and elk is on the table... BUT, you have to be a good shot (for a reason there is a saying that accuracy/shot placement is a key). There been plenty of elk taken even with 243 caliber, which is matter of fact the minimum requirement for elk in Colorado.
However, even if i was world class shooter, i would stick to 600-700 yards.... max 800-850 on very, very rare occasion.
2. Bullet performance, elevation.
3. Where you shoot elk/moose at (lungs, shoulder etc)
Colorado parks and wildlife requires 1000lbs energy left for double lung kill. Recommends 1200+. At 8000 ft elevation, 40f, 180eldm 3000fps from barrel, at 1500 yards still has ~1230 energy remaining. Theoretically, if you shoot good moa at that range, you can shoot elk in lungs. 180eldm at that range still has ~1755 fps left, which is still good for expansion, as eldm expands down to 1500-1600fps.
1500 energy remaining is old school number, and dont really need that much. I seen elk taken with 147 eldm 6.5 CM from 1250 yards, bullet only had ~850 energy left, hit elk in the spine and it dropped right there on the spot.
So yeah, stop listening to those who say you need 1500 energy, and 50 bmg for elk and 300 grain bullet or so. A lot of elk taken with ~140-150 grains, 7mm08. For those who hunt at elevation, even 7mm rem mag is overkill. 7mm08 shooting 162eldm with muzzle velocity of ~2720 at higher elevation is 800 yard elk rifle EASILY. 1940 fps and 1353 energy left. Put it right behind the crease, right there in lungs, and elk is on the table... BUT, you have to be a good shot (for a reason there is a saying that accuracy/shot placement is a key). There been plenty of elk taken even with 243 caliber, which is matter of fact the minimum requirement for elk in Colorado.
However, even if i was world class shooter, i would stick to 600-700 yards.... max 800-850 on very, very rare occasion.
Last edited:
25WSM
Well-Known Member
It all comes down to one simple thing. Calling the wind. I can shoot 10 shot 5 inch groups at 1000 yards. I have several wind flags to read. Home field advantage. And I personally wouldn't try a 1000 yard shot on a game animal. Guns are great. Bullets are great. I know my yardage great. But I can't see wind at 1000 yards. A 210 vld at 2900 moves over 5 ft in a 10 mph cross wind. If I miss paper I adjust and try again. If you miss the wind call on game it could be a complete miss or a shot to the guts or hind quarter Or worse a hit on another animal beside the one your shooting. I have no I'll feeling about people shooting game as far as they want. I just know I can't do it. Shep
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
I don't take a shot at any distance unless I KNOW it will be a kill shot. Not anything less than 100 % sure...sad to say I learned this the hard way over years of experience.
ofbandg
Well-Known Member
I like what you say Mr. Richard but my threshold is 75% for a quickly lethal shot. If I can't get it I don't take it and I, too, learned the hard way. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer of the hunters I meet in the woods put such restrictions on themselves.
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
I also can't figure out why I can't make those 10 or 5 or even 3 shot groups less than 3 inch or even 5 inch groups at 1000yards....consistently. I see this too often folks proclaiming they can do this with ease and often with hunting type rifles. What is more confusing is look at any 1000 yard Benchrest match results where the aggregate groups over the various classes are greater than what I have stated. Can't figure out what I am doing wrong.....or is there some BS going on?
