"Match" bullets for hunting?

hawk4974

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I have seen several posters say they use match bullets for hunting. I thought that was illegal in some states? I've wanted to try match bullets but have had a fear of hunting with them with regard to expansion and energy transfer. I have several questions so I figure this will get a little discussion going. Also, I apologize if this is a redundant thread, I tried to use the search option but it didn't find what I was looking for.

1. What's the difference between the regular Berger, the Hybrid, and the Hunting, they appear to be very similar?

2. I think the Sierra Match King is in the same realm of the Berger, can you hunt with this as well?

3. What other "match" bullets can you hunt with?

4. Are there any custom manufactures that offer a good long range bullet for a 338 WM?

I know BC has a lot to do with LR hunting and shooting which is why Nosler came out with the new LR Accubond. This is the reason for my questions and concerns. I want to work up a good load for my 338 WM so I can play and hunt.

I realize the 338 has a horrible BC compared to a 7mm or similar but this is the prescription I have for my fever! One day soon I will get a 7mm Mag but I had to fulfill my 338 nostalgia first.
 
PLEASE do not get me wrong here. But I have to disagree on the 338 having a horrible bc to a 7mm bullet. I AM A HUGE FAN OF THE 7MM CAL. I believe it is the best and most versatile caliber out their. From the little 7mm 08 to the 7mm STW. Nothing compares to the recoil and long range capabilities. From kids to adults. Little coyotes to Big Bears!

But the 338 caliber has far superior BC in every way if you keep every thing equal. The 7mm mag is most efficient with a 160 to 180 gr bullet.

a 338 cal is most efficient with a 250 to 300 gr bullet.

When these cartridges are used with appropriate bullet weights the 338 is definitely a superior killing machine. With all things considered.

The area that is overlooked is the recoil area. EVERYONE is recoil sensitive to a certain degree. Some more than others. This is where the law of physics can not be argued. The 338 is gong to double the recoil and burn more powder.

In the end I believe all this talk is living out of books and the internet. It is true and scientific, but a lot of game has been cleanly taken at over 1000 yds with the 7mm. YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH SUCCES.

I still would rather have my 338-378 Weatherby stoked with a 280 gr Barnes for elk at 1000! Yes it has a brake.
 
The only question I can answer is the SMK for hunting. Do not use it. I shot a doe with a 308 win, 180 SMK at 125 yards in the chest. Her hind quarters were quartering away so in a perfect world the bullet would have exited on the opposite side a little further back. But it put a little pin hole in her and the exit wound was on the same side and was a tiny pinhole as well! When I shot she looked up at me, kept eating, then walked off. I waited 20 mins and then searched for about a half hour. I found her 200 yards away, no blood trail, no trama to the internal organs, just the same small hole through the heart. I assume the bullet rode the inside of the right shoulder blade and exited the same side. My buddies 3006 150 grain corelokt on the same hunt put a pie sized plate for an exit wound on a similar sized doe at 100 yards.
 

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Here's the doe as we found her 200 yards away. I was a DA on the hunt and grabbed the wrong 308 and we were 2 hours from any small town in east texas for the 4 day hunt.
 

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For small deer etc match bullets of a calibre like .338 lap mag if your shooting is worth talking about any round is more than capable of dropping an animal if you hit it in the right place in which you should be doing anyway, .338 lap mag is easily capable of hitting a deer on the neck or head up to 900 metre. That being said you need to be well practiced which I'm sad to say I'm not at the moment due to a 4 year absense from shooting due to injury but getting back into it now and hopefully will get there again.but these are the kind of standards I'll be working towards.
 
The 338 will always have the upper hand for BC over any caliber that is smaller. Including the 7mm and 30.

Some match bullets do better than others. Some caliber and weights do better within those.

My opinion is that SMKs are very unpredictable. Most of the time they pencil through.

Amaxs on the other hand are very predictable. The open up at even very low velocities. That said, they're great for deer, sheep, antelope etc... But not the greatest for larger game like elk and moose.
 
1. What's the difference between the regular Berger, the Hybrid, and the Hunting, they appear to be very similar?

The Berger hunting bullets have thinner jackets than the target bullets. The thin jacket is what allows the hunting bullet to fragment. The thick target jackets tend to pencil through when used on game. They Berger Hybrids, though technically a target bullet, have a longer hollow nose. This seems to allow the jacket to fragment when used on game.
 
+1 on Mike's comment. I too have found that SMK's pencil through while SGK's open up. In as much as I shoot Sierra's exclusively in handguns and long guns, I've fiddled with lots of Sierra's in many calibers and weights.

My all time favorite Sierra is the SportsMaster handgun pill in 240 grain, 44 RM. It's a killer on any game you can reach with a hog leg.

'Pencilling' isn't all that bad so long as shot placement is perfect but we all know it's not a perfect world when in the woods.
 
I think many times people see a small exit hole and jump to the conclusion that the bullet did not expand. Not always, but more often than one thinks. When in fact the bullet does expand and only a small fragment makes it out leaving a small exit hole. If you want to know how the bullet your are using really works I would spend some time examining the entire wound channel inside. Never leave a gut pile unexamined, it holds the true story, get your hands bloody and see the truth. Don't walk away with only an assumption of what happened. I have seen game with destroyed vitals and 3" wound channels internally with only a tiny exit from small pieces of jacket or lead after 99% of the bullets energy was dumped into the animals vitals.

The result of no internal examination can lead to internet reports from different hunters using the same caliber, bullet weight and design, where one passes through with no expansion and the next report is it blew up and expanded too much. We need to examine closely to see what really happened inside.

Also we need to know that bullet, caliber size, weight, SD and impact velocity play HUGE rolls in what a bullet does and how it performs terminally. What I mean is we should not generalize with phrases like " Target Bullet", Hunting Bullet", "VLD", "Solid", to cover same bullets that fall into said categories. For example a 30 cal 180 Hunting VLD is not going to always act the same in terminal performance as the same 30 cal. 210 Hunting VLD. Sectional density is different and SD and velocity mean way more to me in terms of performance than the fact they are both "Hunting VLD's". Too many times these blanket names are put in place to cover all the bullets that fall into that category of "Hunting VLD's" "Target Bullets" or whatever the given term or name. If one thinks a .243 cal. 105 gr "Hunting VLD" will give the same terminal performance as a 30 cal. 210 gr "Hunting VLD" or a .338 cal 300 gr "Hunting VLD", just because they wear the same name tag, he is very misinformed and needs to learn about bullets, SD, velocity and how they all apply to the task at hand.

I hunt exclusively with bullets that wear the name "Match". Some may also wear other names like Elite Hunters, Match Kings, VLD's, Target, OTM, Hybrid, or whatever. I pay little attention to marketing or design names on the box. I spend more time learning how a bullet is said to work , how it does work in my rifle, and how it also has two different identities or ways of working that is controlled by impact velocity more than anything else.

I have documented probably close to, or maybe over, 100 big game kills. I recorded, took notes, pictures, impact velocities, projectile weight, bullet placement, wound channel lengths and size as well as terminal damage to vitals and bone structure notes. The same bullet from the same rifle is totally different in performance at 200 yards than it is at 800 yards.

Right now my 300 win is setting with 22 big game kills in 22 shots from 200 yards to 1285 yards. Many elk, deer and antelope. This is just since I changed the rifle from a 210 gr "Hunting VLD" to a 215 "Target Hybrid". Were the 22 one shot kills the result of 22 accidents? With as many as a dozen different shooters, including a 13 yr old boy taking his first bull at 550 yards, a 13 yr old girl on her first elk at 601 yards, a 74 yr old man taking his first long range bull at 777 yards? No, not accidents at all. And nothing at all to do with the implied name on the box of bullets. But it is indeed, all about knowing your bullet, how it works best, what it does at different distances / impact velocities, when to pass on a shot, and what YOU as a hunter can do to allow the bullet to work properly and stack the advantages to your favor. I for one feel it is my responsibility to know these things before I take any shot at game.

If you want to search and learn I suggest that you search "terminal Performance" of what ever bullet you may want to use. Then learn how to make them work best for you from your rifle. Where to place them, and when to pass on a shot.

Want to see what the dreaded "Match" bullet does in the field? Want to see actual terminal performance on 19 + big game animals from the same bullet weight, design and rifle? At many different distances? Then I offer you to read, see for yourself, and study this long thread. It is supported with all the real world data and not just He said ~ She said, or it looked like this happened.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

I hope I did not come across as harsh or negative in any way. I mean only to offer my experience in an effort to help anyone be more successful in their hunts.

Shoot straight and have a good hunt.

Jeff
 
I would encourage anyone to not take one bullet, one caliber and one shot and make a decision on an entire line of bullets. The best info comes from guys who will take a bullet and shoot the heck out of it and will share their results.

With a 338 Win don't be afraid to go heavy, the Berger 250 Hunting or OTM would likely perform in spectacular fashion judging by their function in the larger cases where they are going about as fast as you'd want to hunt with them.
I'm doing a similar level of shooting in a 308 with the 215 Berger, just easing them along at 2400 fps with stupid accuracy but they just coast, you need some MOA in your optic but you have significantly less wind drift.
There is a lot of merit to the heavy for cal with moderate or even low velocity round with a great BC bullet!
 
I only used the SMK once for the before mentioned deer hunt. That coupled with numerous other threads of the SMK putting little pencil holes through game made me quickly switch to a different bullet style. When we gutted the doe further examination showed the same little hole through the heart. If I missed the heart then I would not have been as lucky to find the deer. IMHO, the SMK will work but why risk it when there are so many proven bullet choices out there? Not being negative, just a good discussion.
 
I think if your well practiced and are confident in what you doing then using a match bullet which is well placed will drop any animal , instead of blaming bullets or saying what's right and what's wrong , if you have good shot placement and data for every range you intend on shooting then you'll have no problems with any type of round. Expanding round are good if your slight of your intended point of impact but I'd rather get better at shooting than chop and change bullets to make up for human error, not intending to be rude but that's my opinion but at the same time each to there own
 
Practice until your point of aim is your point of impact every time on a target at every range then go out and shoot a deer and then it won't matter what type or brand of bullet your using because you'll be making a kill shot every time because your well practiced and good at what your doing.
 
Good discussion. 300 whisper , if I may ask could you report an impact velocity? I am very curious and like to learn from results.

This is a long range site and Long range hunting dictates bullet performance. Both in accuracy and terminal performance. This is why I use High BC bullets that will result in less drift and drop. They in turn allow it to be easier to place shots well. We all agree shot placement is king with any bullet. This means long range hunting sometimes takes a total different bullet design than what we would choose for a 400 yard or less shot. Also a bullet that is labeled to be "the better" choice could preform miserably at long distances and not expand at all.

Just some more criteria for picking a bullet. And also the reason I and some others agree there is not perfect bullet for all scenarios. Just a bullet that choice that works better for your use if you use it properly.

Jeff
 
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