Looking to get advice on initial setup

[RobbieT]

Rock chucker kit. Powder trickler. Dial Calipers. Case. TrimmerSome dies. I've got a Barnes book and a nosler book the more the better. Good brass I like Nosler maybe Weatherby. The right bullet weight and length for your twist of barrel maybe consult an expert. Use the reloading books and find Some powders. Focus on finding the right bullet first get it under MOAoff a solid rest. mess with powders, seating depth, crimp to get maximum speed and lowest ES under 1% ( buy a chrono). Build a reloading bench with a target out the window. Buy beer and drink with the old timers that know everything. Gather dope and keep notes Go long!

 

[QuietTexan]

I get where you're coming from. I tried to tailor the list the what he asked for - I don't think anything on the list is excessive for his stated goals when you break it down, it just looks like a lot when you take it all at once. The core processes are sizing, charging/priming, and seating. For that you need a press, a scale, and a couple of dies.

The Rebel press isn't any more costly than a MEC or Forster, and I think it has several important specs that make it a better choice than the RC IV. There's no reason to waste money to start with an aluminum press when a steel one will last forever. On-press priming setups for not bottom end presses cost roughly the same as a basic handheld unit once you get all the bits and pieces to make it work. The RCBS handheld is universal, quality, and will last as long as the press.

The A&D balance is not much more than the Chargemaster that most people recommend, but as a balance is much more useful and accurate. The Matchmaster is the correct comparison on the weighing side, and the lab balance without the Autotrickler upgrade has the benefit of being better for the more important core task of accuracy in charge weight without paying more for the speed of an auto drop. Matchmaster is $900, the FX is $500. I could have recommended a manual balance - but those are more difficult to use for volumetric case sorting and don't work with automated powder drops, so it would ultimately end up being replaced rather than upgraded. There's no manual powder drop or fancy trickler on the list.

The Redding die set is the most effective way to get a quality mic seater, body die, and neck-sizing only functionality in a set, all of which are going to be important for the radiused shoulder he's working with on the Weatherby case. There's no mention of measuring concentricity on the list because with those dies it won't matter. Or you can piece together a half dozen mismatched dies for slightly less and end up spending 2x on measuring tools to figure out that your runout is triple the amount of if you had bought something decent in the first place. Buying a decent die up front saves the cost of even going down the road of runout. Lee makes collet dies for Weatherbys but that doesn't address the inevitable body issues. Forster makes mic seating and bump dies, but then you need to add a neck-only die still and you're within $50 in cost of the Redding set. Forster will also sell you a set with the three most common bushings, but he could wait and order those separate and get the correct ones for the brass he has for roughly the same cost. Mandrels buy just the couple he needs and not a full set, definitely not a turning set which is money wasted from a tuning perspective.

The Mitu caliper is a combination of accuracy and ease of use. IMO digital is easier to use ifor loading than a dial capliper (Vernier scale mics I kind of prefer manual over digital), but to move past bottom end China garbage in any caliper you're already paying half as much as the digital if you get a decent dial, might as well upgrade to digital at the start. The digial makes headspace and bullet comparator measurements easier when you zero out the digital scale versus on a dial caliper. 8" over 6" is a preference but when you're measuring ~4" COALs I find that the stem digs into my hand with a 6" unit and it's harder to hold. I like my old Starrett dial calipers just fine, but dang if it isn't easy to hit the zero button and see 0.001, 0.002, 0.003 rather than reading a dial that's upside down when it's zeroed out.

There's no case trimming tools on the list because that's one of the most over-used and least-required processes that brass is subjected to. It's money down the drain for the majority of precision loading if you set your dies correctly or shoot anything with a 30+* shoulder. In his case I don't think the cases will grow too long before he loses the primer pockets. The neck sizing options of the bushing dies and mandrels will be much more impactful than a uniform case length.

Roughly half the items on the list (blocks, funnels, etc) are buy-once, cost less than $40, and last forever - but you need them to get started. Look at your bench and add up all the costs if you had to replace it all at once.

And why spend $500 on a "kit" that you end up throwing half the junk away because you hit their tolerances almost immediately if you're putting effort into loading anything better than blaster ammo. The most frustrating part of a precision job is being better than your tools, and it's not hard to be better than most anything made in China.

Excessive would be:

• Area 419 press
• SAC dies with every bushing (don't know if they even make a Weatherby die TBH - but their neck/shoulder combo bushings for the universal dies look so good they probably need to come with a display case)
• Autotrickler V4 (I can barely even bring myself to type Prometheus, the thought of it makes me kind of nauseous)
• AMP Press and Sinclair mic seating dies
• AMP annealer
• LE Wilson case trimmer setup
• 21st century concentricity gauge
• K+M and mandrel set plus full set of case tools
• CPS primer and pocket measuring tools
• SAC comparators
• Mitu everything for measuring

And he'd still need the Satern funnel. The plastic universal funnels are trash. I will die on that hill But I guess I should upgrade that to the Area 419 universal funnel and drop tube set for maximum bling factor

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

Ok so, based on your criteria and just loading for the one round to start. This is going to be a touch heavy on the "cry once" part but I think it maximizes utility, has a lot of flexibility for growth, minimizes things that will ultimately be completely replaced in order to upgrade, and works to achieve the accuracy goals with the least amount of fuss.

RCBS Rebel Press
A&D FX-120i balance (balance only, not the full Autotrickler kit)
Redding Elite Bushing Die Set (FL bushing, neck Bushing, mic seater) - get a VLD stem at the same time so you have both
Forster FL die
Universal decapping die
RCBC Universal Hand Primer, or any bench mounted model if you prefer that)
Satern powder funnel
Any Universal loading block
Hornady Headspace Comparator
Hornady Bullet Comparator
Mitutoyo 8" digital caliper
iGauging Outside Mic and Ball Mic, and a stand to hold them
Any manual trickler, I use a Redding because it's one piece and all metal
Lee dipper set for bulk powder dropping
Imperial case wax
Vibratory tumbler and treated corncob or walnut mix


Once you have all that and are ready to load, use the mics to pick:
2-3x correct bushings and a couple of K+M or 21st Century mandrels/die to work your necks with. (I'm not recommending turning mandrels here because I'm suggesting to buy based on your actual brass measurements, and only buy turning and expanding mandrels if you start turning later)

When the time comes to upgrade the only thing that will be completely supplanted is the priming tool, that's kind of an all-or-nothing tool. If you want to add an Arbor press, then the K+M press with an LE Wilson mic die is a good combination - the Rebel press and 3 of the 4 dies will still be what you need for sizing.

If you decide to start annealing, or turning, or volume sorting cases, or anything else you'll have to add those tools, but they won't be replacements for anything on the main list, and the tools like the lab balance, calipers, and mics will be very useful to those processes. If you want to chance cleaning processes later, dry corn cob or walnut is still something I think is important to keep around depending on what kind of case lube you're using, and for general cleaning and polishing.



Links are random vendors I've used before, I don't get paid by any of them. Except I will say CE Products was the best deal by several hundred bucks when I bought my scale.

A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g

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257 Weatherby Magnum Type-S Elite Bushing Die Set

257 Weatherby Magnum Type-S Elite Bushing Die Set by Redding Midsouth now carries the 257 Weatherby Magnum Type-S Elite Bushing Die Set. The 257 Weatherby Magnum Type-S Elite Bushing Die Set is comprised of a Type S Bushing Full Die, A Type S Bushing Neck Die and the unparalleled Redding...

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FORSTER 257 WEATHERBY MAG FULL LENGTH SIZER DIE - Graf & Sons

Our Bench Rest® Sizing Dies are manufactured from the finest quality steel and are hand polished both before and after heat treating to guarantee an extra-fine finish. They are all equipped with our exclusive E-Z Out Expander button which solves the age-old problem of keeping case necks...

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Caliber Specific Expander Mandrel Kits

Our caliber specific expander mandrels are available in .0005” increments in calibers 22 to 338 and will range from .001” above bullet diameter to at least .003” below bullet diameter depending on caliber. This will allow the reloader to find proper neck tension to fine-tune their loads. The...

21stcenturyinnovation.com

Amazon product ASIN B00IJ116DCAmazon product ASIN B01N9U1387Amazon product ASIN B01LTHFMPU

Go big or stay home. I like the detail. I might have to sell a kidney or two to buy this all at once, how many can I sell? This will a take a while to get. Thanks for taking the time to put this together. This could be a 257wby reloading Sticky...

 

[nksmfamjp]

QuietTexan has it pretty well nailed….I do it a bit different…

RCBS Rebel Press
A&D FX-120i balance (balance only, not the full Autotrickler kit)
Redding Elite Bushing Die Set (FL bushing, neck Bushing, mic seater) - get a VLD stem at the same time so you have both
Forster FL die
Universal decapping die
RCBC Universal Hand Primer, or any bench mounted model if you prefer that)
Satern powder funnel
Any Universal loading block
Hornady Headspace Comparator
Hornady Bullet Comparator
Mitutoyo 8" digital caliper
iGauging Outside Mic and Ball Mic, and a stand to hold them
Any manual trickler, I use a Redding because it's one piece and all metal
Lee dipper set for bulk powder dropping
Imperial case wax
Vibratory tumbler and treated corncob or walnut mix

My substitutions would be:

MEC Marksman

Love the A&D, but honestly you can get a long ways down the rabbit hole with a great +/- 0.1gr electronic scale you can trust. A dispenser is nice.

Redding Bushing FL die set, Whidden Die FL die set, or Forster FL die set….I view these all as pretty equal. Honestly the Hornady Match Grade bushing dies are probably as good. I have all of these, but haven't measured results of the Hornady bushing dies yet. I find othe Hornady dies pretty good. In my measurements, I find Forster produces the least runout.

I used the RCBS priming tool. I find the K&M tool to be much more precise. I feel my next step here is a bench mounted adjustable stop tool like the k&m.

Hornady or Sinclair Comparators. The Sinclair seem a touch better, but I'm struggling how to quantify this. Maybe not possible on target.

I would add 2 calipers and a gauge block….you need something that tells you new calipers are good and old calipers are still good.

I would also strongly suggest a check weight set more accurate than your scale.

Also, I would suggest a decent runout measurement tool like 21st Century, Accuracy One, Sinclair or RCBS. The RCBS is a little inconsistent, but works pretty well. I always here this isn't needed, but I have found bound up lock rings or other issues with them a few times…..or LNL bushings that were not true.

…..and hold onto your butt! This is gonna cost you!

 

[misterc01]

Added - Reloading manual for your bullets - Speer/Hornady?Berger etc. And make your self a checklist so you have record of what you have relaoded, what etc.

 

[QuietTexan]

This will a take a while to get. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

No problem, glad to help. It does take awhile to get it all put together if you're starting from scratch. Do you know someone who loads? This is the kind of hobby where we all like to help guys start out, and even once you have the basics covered it's always nice to have a connection to let you try a piece of kit or a process before you buy it.

Hornady or Sinclair Comparators. The Sinclair seem a touch better, but I'm struggling how to quantify this. Maybe not possible on target.

The Sinclair inserts are steel, correct? Probably they're more round than the aluminum Hornady inserts. The holes in my Hornady comparators are pretty apparently oblong, but I don't have a way to quantify how out of round they are without buying a bunch of pin gauges. It's ultimately a $40 tool and not worth the cost of my figuring out how poorly made it is But I think that was the root of a lot of my inconsistency with the comparator. Sure I could rotate a cartridge and get 0.001" repeatable measurements at some point around the diameter, but there's a lot of tolerances aligning to get that result and I was ignoring some large swings.

 

[Silent Hammer]

Or, you could really save yourself time, headaches, regret and mostly MONEY.
Buy Lee 3 or 4 die sets! I've been reloading since about 1970 and won't bore you with a huge list.
Read before you spend is what I'll say, and go to different sites for other opinions.
You also I could start with the right progressive press and use it as a single stage or turret press. No need to start on single although good to have on hand.
Watch out for the haters!

 

[Silent Hammer]

Don't believe the, "don't neck size"stuff. It's nice not having to trim or use lube and getting over 10 times plus case use.

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

No problem, glad to help. It does take awhile to get it all put together if you're starting from scratch. Do you know someone who loads? This is the kind of hobby where we all like to help guys start out, and even once you have the basics covered it's always nice to have a connection to let you try a piece of kit or a process before you buy it.


The Sinclair inserts are steel, correct? Probably they're more round than the aluminum Hornady inserts. The holes in my Hornady comparators are pretty apparently oblong, but I don't have a way to quantify how out of round they are without buying a bunch of pin gauges. It's ultimately a $40 tool and not worth the cost of my figuring out how poorly made it is But I think that was the root of a lot of my inconsistency with the comparator. Sure I could rotate a cartridge and get 0.001" repeatable measurements at some point around the diameter, but there's a lot of tolerances aligning to get that result and I was ignoring some large swings.

I don't know anyone that reloads.

 

[SpeedymanWCC]

Btw I'm only using Wby brass. I have 115 of them, once fired.

 

[mudflap621]

Just make informed decisions neither is wrong but there's a reason hardly anyone neck sizes anymore.

 

[Silent Hammer]

See, read the ones with the, Pros too, instead of just the cons.
That's why they make neck dies. No need to turn necks. Especially the Lee Collet!

 

[nksmfamjp]

The Sinclair inserts are steel, correct? Probably they're more round than the aluminum Hornady inserts. The holes in my Hornady comparators are pretty apparently oblong, but I don't have a way to quantify how out of round they are without buying a bunch of pin gauges. It's ultimately a $40 tool and not worth the cost of my figuring out how poorly made it is But I think that was the root of a lot of my inconsistency with the comparator. Sure I could rotate a cartridge and get 0.001" repeatable measurements at some point around the diameter, but there's a lot of tolerances aligning to get that result and I was ignoring some large swings.

Sinclair are steel. The bullet ones are cut at a throat angle….headspace are cut at shoulder angle. They are kind of expensive. Not sure they are better yet, but seem easier to get a repeatable measurement with.

Or, you could really save yourself time, headaches, regret and mostly MONEY.
Buy Lee 3 or 4 die sets! I've been reloading since about 1970 and won't bore you with a huge list.
Read before you spend is what I'll say, and go to different sites for other opinions.
You also I could start with the right progressive press and use it as a single stage or turret press. No need to start on single although good to have on hand.
Watch out for the haters!

You can definitely buy a lot of Lee stuff for what I have in reloading equipment. Totally agree. I have reloaded with Lee. I cannot make accurate ammo with Lee equipment and nobody else can either. We can talk about some guy, some where with some rifle, but no…It's just not real. You can make decent ammo for factory rifles. You might get a few accidental good groups. I'm happy for those Lee loaders.

Don't believe the, "don't neck size"stuff. It's nice not having to trim or use lube and getting over 10 times plus case use.

That sounds really good and I agree you can neck size for several reloads, especially with an ultra stiff heavy single shot rifles and thick chambers. It is not really a good way to load for hunting rifles. The rifles demand 0.002-0.004" of sizing per reload, unless you are banging bolt handles closed and then open again. Your choice, I guess.

 

[misterc01]

Sinclair are steel. The bullet ones are cut at a throat angle….headspace are cut at shoulder angle. They are kind of expensive. Not sure they are better yet, but seem easier to get a repeatable measurement with.


You can definitely buy a lot of Lee stuff for what I have in reloading equipment. Totally agree. I have reloaded with Lee. I cannot make accurate ammo with Lee equipment and nobody else can either. We can talk about some guy, some where with some rifle, but no…It's just not real. You can make decent ammo for factory rifles. You might get a few accidental good groups. I'm happy for those Lee loaders.



That sounds really good and I agree you can neck size for several reloads, especially with an ultra stiff heavy single shot rifles and thick chambers. It is not really a good way to load for hunting rifles. The rifles demand 0.002-0.004" of sizing per reload, unless you are banging bolt handles closed and then open again. Your choice, I guess.

Well golly gee whiz, who knew that about lee. And here O am thinking using Lee dies and shooting repeatable sub-MOA groups at 600 yards was more than acceptable............................