Jeffrey Van Zandt
Well-Known Member
the long range club did one up here went good most guns we ok anything you hunt with was good to go. shooting from 4 wheelers off of track rig tops, ect
Long Range Hunting Match
- Thread starter Jud96
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Timnterra
Well-Known Member
I love this idea and have wanted to do something like this myself. Here are my two cents from my experience at competitions.
1. If more than a handful of people will participate it must be a timed event. And 5 minutes is too long. I think the time adds to the real life stress of making a good shot on a trophy animal. Two minutes is the standard for the PRS matches I've been to. In that two minutes you must build a shooting position and fire 10 rounds at different targets often times moving positions. Two minutes is more than enough to aquire a target dial dope, build a shooting position and take a well aimed shot. Also in hunting situations animals don't just wait around for you to get ready and take a shot. I've been hunting with lots of guys that have blown opportunities at amazing animals because it took them too long to get set up and take a shot.
2. It would be cool to set up the stages in a way that each shooter would approach the stage blind, meaning they cannot even see the target or targets until they enter the shooting area. They approach with back turned or something and one the timer turn around and have a minute to glass, find and range the targets.
3. I think having a magnum class would be good too. The 425,000 power factor fits well with 6.5 creedmoor and 308 etc but the guys that shoot a 7mm mag up to the big 338's will have a much harder recoil to manage. You Could make the magnum class anything over 525,000 power factor.
4. Stages would be more realistic if you designate a "firing area" with natural support structure such as big rocks logs berms etc that could be used to build a firing position and let each shooter choose his position. PRS is challenging and unrealistic because it forces everyone to shoot from very uncomfortable positions that they would never choose to fire from if they were trying to make the best shot possible. You could make it where Some areas will allow prone shooting and some will not, forcing shooters to adapt to the situation just like in hunting when the animal presents itself in less than ideal circumstances. After the minute for glassing and ranging targets the shooter would enter the firing area and find the position most comfortable for him to take a shot from.
5. Have a Range Officer at each stage who does the scoring and tells the shooters the description of the firing area and the number of targets to look for. Have each shooter carry their own score card like golf and hand it to the RO when it is their time to shoot. The RO records the score and initials by it.
6. Limit the amount of junk that guys can bring to avoid the nonsense seen in PRS and NRL. A rifle with ammo, a rear bag, binos and a rangefinder and something to tell dope like a kestrel, cell phone or notecard sounds like all you would need.
There was an event like this held in Newcastle Wyoming a few weeks ago for handgun hunting. The focus was on practical scenarios and realistic handgun ranges that would be encountered during hunting situations. It was called Handgun Hunters Competition. You can read the rules and details here. It might be helpful to see what they did.
looking forward to seeing this happen!
1. If more than a handful of people will participate it must be a timed event. And 5 minutes is too long. I think the time adds to the real life stress of making a good shot on a trophy animal. Two minutes is the standard for the PRS matches I've been to. In that two minutes you must build a shooting position and fire 10 rounds at different targets often times moving positions. Two minutes is more than enough to aquire a target dial dope, build a shooting position and take a well aimed shot. Also in hunting situations animals don't just wait around for you to get ready and take a shot. I've been hunting with lots of guys that have blown opportunities at amazing animals because it took them too long to get set up and take a shot.
2. It would be cool to set up the stages in a way that each shooter would approach the stage blind, meaning they cannot even see the target or targets until they enter the shooting area. They approach with back turned or something and one the timer turn around and have a minute to glass, find and range the targets.
3. I think having a magnum class would be good too. The 425,000 power factor fits well with 6.5 creedmoor and 308 etc but the guys that shoot a 7mm mag up to the big 338's will have a much harder recoil to manage. You Could make the magnum class anything over 525,000 power factor.
4. Stages would be more realistic if you designate a "firing area" with natural support structure such as big rocks logs berms etc that could be used to build a firing position and let each shooter choose his position. PRS is challenging and unrealistic because it forces everyone to shoot from very uncomfortable positions that they would never choose to fire from if they were trying to make the best shot possible. You could make it where Some areas will allow prone shooting and some will not, forcing shooters to adapt to the situation just like in hunting when the animal presents itself in less than ideal circumstances. After the minute for glassing and ranging targets the shooter would enter the firing area and find the position most comfortable for him to take a shot from.
5. Have a Range Officer at each stage who does the scoring and tells the shooters the description of the firing area and the number of targets to look for. Have each shooter carry their own score card like golf and hand it to the RO when it is their time to shoot. The RO records the score and initials by it.
6. Limit the amount of junk that guys can bring to avoid the nonsense seen in PRS and NRL. A rifle with ammo, a rear bag, binos and a rangefinder and something to tell dope like a kestrel, cell phone or notecard sounds like all you would need.
There was an event like this held in Newcastle Wyoming a few weeks ago for handgun hunting. The focus was on practical scenarios and realistic handgun ranges that would be encountered during hunting situations. It was called Handgun Hunters Competition. You can read the rules and details here. It might be helpful to see what they did.
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baysidecustomgunworks.com
looking forward to seeing this happen!
nealm66
Well-Known Member
I'd really like to try that Hornady shoot.
Fantastic idea! I don't shoot competetivly at all but would try this just for the fun and good practice. Early spring like March ish would be great. Usually fair weather, bugs aint out yet, no hunting or sports seasons to interfere with participation.
entoptics
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2018
- Messages
- 878
Perhaps having a stiff penalty for misses would be a good thing. One very important skill for a hunter is knowing their limits.
In order to speed up the process of moving shooters through, you could place the targets "PRS" style, with 3-5 targets per stage. Allow 2 shots per target maximum. If the targets were "cleverly" set up, it would force shooters to pick and choose for maximum effectiveness.
For example...3 pts for a hit, -4 pts for a miss.
Stage X. Shooting position arranged such that a prone shot would be hard to setup, but perhaps sitting with a log to rest on is easily achievable.
1 Deer at 350 yds
1 Elk at 420 yds
1 coyote at 375 yds
1 Bison at 640 yds.
As a hunter, I'd be quite certain I could knock off the Deer and Elk, but from a sitting position, that coyote will be a small target, and even the big bison might be a challenge from that distance and non-ideal rest. Having to make the call, based on wind, distance, and stability in the moment, is a good test to force on the shooter.
My strategy would be to take the 12 pts I know I could make, then perhaps take a chance on the next hardest shot, risking a -4. If I made it great. If not, quit while I'm ahead (or perhaps try and sneak 3 pts back if the splash tells me how to adjust).
In the real world, you don't take a shot you might not make on an animal. With a stiff "miss penalty", you can sort of simulate that decision making process.
One last suggestion. Set a "par time" for each target, with an ample reload time before the next target. For example. "Shooter Ready?" "Beep!" shooter has 30 seconds to get in position and fire two shots at one target. After the 2nd shot, give them up to 30 seconds to top off gun (but no ranging/doping/moving/etc allowed in that interval). Rinse and repeat for each target.
That will prevent incentivizing higher capacity magazines. There should be no disadvantage for having a standard 3-4 shot hunting rifle. Other than varmint hunting, in the real world, a hunter will almost never be engaging multiple targets in one session.
In order to speed up the process of moving shooters through, you could place the targets "PRS" style, with 3-5 targets per stage. Allow 2 shots per target maximum. If the targets were "cleverly" set up, it would force shooters to pick and choose for maximum effectiveness.
For example...3 pts for a hit, -4 pts for a miss.
Stage X. Shooting position arranged such that a prone shot would be hard to setup, but perhaps sitting with a log to rest on is easily achievable.
1 Deer at 350 yds
1 Elk at 420 yds
1 coyote at 375 yds
1 Bison at 640 yds.
As a hunter, I'd be quite certain I could knock off the Deer and Elk, but from a sitting position, that coyote will be a small target, and even the big bison might be a challenge from that distance and non-ideal rest. Having to make the call, based on wind, distance, and stability in the moment, is a good test to force on the shooter.
My strategy would be to take the 12 pts I know I could make, then perhaps take a chance on the next hardest shot, risking a -4. If I made it great. If not, quit while I'm ahead (or perhaps try and sneak 3 pts back if the splash tells me how to adjust).
In the real world, you don't take a shot you might not make on an animal. With a stiff "miss penalty", you can sort of simulate that decision making process.
One last suggestion. Set a "par time" for each target, with an ample reload time before the next target. For example. "Shooter Ready?" "Beep!" shooter has 30 seconds to get in position and fire two shots at one target. After the 2nd shot, give them up to 30 seconds to top off gun (but no ranging/doping/moving/etc allowed in that interval). Rinse and repeat for each target.
That will prevent incentivizing higher capacity magazines. There should be no disadvantage for having a standard 3-4 shot hunting rifle. Other than varmint hunting, in the real world, a hunter will almost never be engaging multiple targets in one session.
redleg1013
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2012
- Messages
- 243
Scott Satterlee was talking about something very similar to this with Frank Galli and sounds like it's already a thing.
xsn10s
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2016
- Messages
- 7,639
I never did a match, but from what I've seen I couldn't agree more. It's much akin to IDPA. There are skills you can gain from the match, but most of the stuff would get you killed in "real life".
DMP25-06
Well-Known Member
Hello Jud96 ,
Your Hunter Class power factor of 425,000 would effectively rule out some very popular cartridges .
Examples , just 3 :
.270 Winchester , classic Jack O'Connor load , 3100 fps x 130 gr = 403,000
The BELOVED 6.5CM , would have to drive a 140 gr bullet x 3036 fps = 425,040
NOT HAPPENING in realistic scenario.
.280 Remington , factory spec ammo , 3000 fps x 140 gr = 420,000
You might need to revise the Hunter Class power factor .
DMP25-06
Timnterra
Well-Known Member
No reason the creedmoor shouldn't be in the varmint class, It is a 22-250 sized case afterall. the 270 and the 280 both fit inside the power factor required if shooting heavy for caliber long range capable bullets.
rustyshackleford
Well-Known Member
No one likes 6.5 CM. 270 driving a 150 at 2900 would easily meet that PF and would be better for the longer shots. A 280 pushing a 165 at 2700 would also meet and exceed the PF.
I think the timed stage helps add that stress, nerves , aspect od the operation to the shooter.. which is realistic. Easiest way to implement that mental game into the training is to add a clock .
Last edited:
DMP25-06
Well-Known Member
Timnterra and Rustyshackleford ,
I just threw out those 3 cartridges as examples .
If I were shooting a match as described , I would be shooting a Magnum class cartridge of some caliber , that would effectively deliver a bullet with more than enough energy and velocity to be able to harvest an animal at 1000+ yards .
There might need to be some criteria of energy delivered when engaging targets at distances of 800 - 1000 yards .
Just my thoughts .
DMP25-06
I just threw out those 3 cartridges as examples .
If I were shooting a match as described , I would be shooting a Magnum class cartridge of some caliber , that would effectively deliver a bullet with more than enough energy and velocity to be able to harvest an animal at 1000+ yards .
There might need to be some criteria of energy delivered when engaging targets at distances of 800 - 1000 yards .
Just my thoughts .
DMP25-06
