chucknbach
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't the 452's 453's replaced by the 455? Saw a 455 today in gun store that came with 2 barrels 22lr and 17
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Long Range .22 Long Rifle
- Thread starter Firecat
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sscoyote
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, i actually "zeroed" the finger-adjustable turret by using a small Phillips screwdriver. Darned if it didn't work perfect. The 2 dots are at the 10 MOA point, which is coincidentally at the ends of the arrow. Never knew you could zero a FA turret like this. It was actually really easy. I'm assuming that the "0" indicator is actually designed for this app. Why else would it be there?--
devitor
Member
This is my second post on the site and I'm glad the subject of .22LR for long range is being discussed. This is one of three projects I'm very seriously considering this year. As previous posters indicated, a .22LR can be shot out to 500 yd and a video was posted to prove it. This roughly mimics a .308 at 1,000 yd and a .338 LM at 1330 yd in terms of drop. I keep my firearms out in eastern PA and 300 is about the longest range you're going to find unless you are willing to travel halfway to Ohio. Not my idea of a day shooting trip.
This is what I'm considering building:
Savage Mark II BV
Harris Bipod
Accushot Monopod
EGW 20 MOA rail
Bushnell Banner 6-24x40
This whole setup I've estimated at around $750 - $800 give or take. .22LR is dirt cheap to shoot.
I was going to build a Savage 111-based .338 Lapua with an SWFA 20x fixed MRAD scope and a Ken Farrell 40 MOA rail, a Harris bipod with Triad Tactical claw feet and the monpod. This setup is $1800+ - and I've have no place to get any reasonable use out of it. And .338 LM is $5/round. One four shot group out of the .338 will buy me 500 rounds of .22LR. I can get about 5 - 10 LR shooting sessions out of 500 rounds.
The .338 LM is absolutely a high-roller's round and you're paying big bucks to build the rifle out. With no place to shoot the .338 LM, I'm most likely going to abandon that project and do the .22LR. It would mimic the Savage 10-FP I have in .308 with a SWFA 20x fixed mil-dot, standard base.
Same commonality between the guns, same setups - but different rounds. At 300 yd, the .22LR will mimic a .308 in bullet drop at 670 yd. I'm still looking at traveling halfway to OH just to get a real 670 range.
I'm just deciding now, whether $750 - $800 on a .22LR rig like this is worth the capital investment. I have a Ruger 10/22 with a Simmons 3-9 scope and I've tried pushing it to 300 yd with not such great results. For the money I'd have to put into the Ruger, I think building out the Savage would be the best bet.
This is what I'm considering building:
Savage Mark II BV
Harris Bipod
Accushot Monopod
EGW 20 MOA rail
Bushnell Banner 6-24x40
This whole setup I've estimated at around $750 - $800 give or take. .22LR is dirt cheap to shoot.
I was going to build a Savage 111-based .338 Lapua with an SWFA 20x fixed MRAD scope and a Ken Farrell 40 MOA rail, a Harris bipod with Triad Tactical claw feet and the monpod. This setup is $1800+ - and I've have no place to get any reasonable use out of it. And .338 LM is $5/round. One four shot group out of the .338 will buy me 500 rounds of .22LR. I can get about 5 - 10 LR shooting sessions out of 500 rounds.
The .338 LM is absolutely a high-roller's round and you're paying big bucks to build the rifle out. With no place to shoot the .338 LM, I'm most likely going to abandon that project and do the .22LR. It would mimic the Savage 10-FP I have in .308 with a SWFA 20x fixed mil-dot, standard base.
Same commonality between the guns, same setups - but different rounds. At 300 yd, the .22LR will mimic a .308 in bullet drop at 670 yd. I'm still looking at traveling halfway to OH just to get a real 670 range.
I'm just deciding now, whether $750 - $800 on a .22LR rig like this is worth the capital investment. I have a Ruger 10/22 with a Simmons 3-9 scope and I've tried pushing it to 300 yd with not such great results. For the money I'd have to put into the Ruger, I think building out the Savage would be the best bet.
RMulhern
Well-Known Member
Frankly....I'd real seriously consider MOVING to another location!
devitor
Member
Moving right now is not really an option for me. Too many ties that bind me here, but that is something I would do in the future.
For the here and now, absent a place to shoot .338 LM or other such, my options are the .22LR rig, just shoot the .308 Savage at 300, or work on the 10/22 and push it. My other rifles are also .308 but are not built/intended for long-range accuracy.
For the here and now, absent a place to shoot .338 LM or other such, my options are the .22LR rig, just shoot the .308 Savage at 300, or work on the 10/22 and push it. My other rifles are also .308 but are not built/intended for long-range accuracy.
Greetings from Australia.
This is my cherry post (first). Long range shooting with a .22 is something very dear to my heart. I figured years ago that if guys could stretch .303 and and 308 win out beyond 1000 metres, then an accurate .22 or pea rifle as it was known in the old days here, was capable of hitting targets out to the limit of the ability of the scope to match trajectory.
I started long range .22 shooting with a single shot Anschutz model 1386 and a bushnell scope chief scope in about 1968. Since then I have had many long range centrefire rifles, or more correctly rifles capable of long range shooting. I have always continued to use .22 as a fun way to improve my abilities.
I have two long range setups in .22: a Martini .22 small bore target rifle chopped to 18" and restocked with a montecarlo stock and topped with a T 10 weaver scope.
My main squeeze however, is an Anschutz model 54 silhouette rifle topped again with a T10. This rifle has the advantage of the beautiful 54 trigger and is capable of putting 5 shots that you could cover with your little finger nail.
Both rifles are capable of hitting a 6" steel plate at 400 metres. Using the dial up turrets and allowing for wind is great practice for centrefire shooting without the expense.
I must say I envy you guys in the US for the range of actions etc you have available to you at such great prices. We are limited to what the importers think they can sell.
regards pete
This is my cherry post (first). Long range shooting with a .22 is something very dear to my heart. I figured years ago that if guys could stretch .303 and and 308 win out beyond 1000 metres, then an accurate .22 or pea rifle as it was known in the old days here, was capable of hitting targets out to the limit of the ability of the scope to match trajectory.
I started long range .22 shooting with a single shot Anschutz model 1386 and a bushnell scope chief scope in about 1968. Since then I have had many long range centrefire rifles, or more correctly rifles capable of long range shooting. I have always continued to use .22 as a fun way to improve my abilities.
I have two long range setups in .22: a Martini .22 small bore target rifle chopped to 18" and restocked with a montecarlo stock and topped with a T 10 weaver scope.
My main squeeze however, is an Anschutz model 54 silhouette rifle topped again with a T10. This rifle has the advantage of the beautiful 54 trigger and is capable of putting 5 shots that you could cover with your little finger nail.
Both rifles are capable of hitting a 6" steel plate at 400 metres. Using the dial up turrets and allowing for wind is great practice for centrefire shooting without the expense.
I must say I envy you guys in the US for the range of actions etc you have available to you at such great prices. We are limited to what the importers think they can sell.
regards pete
Your .22 setup is pretty much the same road I'm going down. I narrowed it down to two choices. Either the markII BV or the mark II BRJ. This has been a tuff choice. The BRJ is around $65 more but has some definite advantages. Two forearm swivel studs being one. A fluted barrel being another. I think I will go with a 20 moa base as well. Post some pics when you get it done.
P.S. Welcome to the boards to the new members.
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sscoyote
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you guys have some nice projects going. I just today purchased a Browning Buckmark Hunter with 7.25" barrel, and will be putting the PFI 1.25-4x RR-500-1 on top, reticle recald. to the trajectory of various 22 Long Rifle rounds for PD's ground squirrels and rabbits to long range.
There are a couple matches locally for long range 22 and i'm going to see how well this setup performs.
There are a couple matches locally for long range 22 and i'm going to see how well this setup performs.
jchristo1
New Member
This is an interesting idea. I shoot 22 regularly at 50 and 100 yards to sharpen my offhand shooting for regular hunting. I hadn't thought about using it for long range. I dry fire a few times between shots when I find myself flinching with my 243. I have a Savage Model 12 with a heavy varmint barrel, so it doesn't kick as much as a lot of guns. One problem you might have at longer ranges is overall accuracy of a 22 versus the big game hunting calibers. How many MOA spread do you get at 150 yd with a 22? What about 17 HMR? That's 2550 fps muzzle, but the bullet weighs only about half of a 22 cal so wind is probably an issue.
I was surprised to find that using my Savage 22 and a specific cartridge that I was able to get 1-2MOA routinely at 200 yards. It did take a while to find the right round. At 200 yards with a 50 yard zero, I'm holding 15 MOA of elevation consistantly, with 20 MOA correction for a 10mph wind. Using my FTE Ballistic program combined with my Leopold 6.5x20 turret scope, I can get very reproducible results from 25-250 yards. Great practice for LR shooting/hunting. Made a shot last year on a woodchuck at 190 yards.
sscoyote
Well-Known Member
You know for me it's not really about group size at extended range [although that's obviously important]as much as it is about calculations. In this video i calcd. a generic 22 RF ballistics program and using a 5.5"-barrelled Ruger Mk III with a "crappy" 2x Barska plex reticle that subtends 14 MOA, I then calcd. the reticle reference by dividing the trajectory needed by the reticle subtension. It gave me 1.2-"subtension units", and i hit the 160-yd. tgt. with almost every shot, especially the 1st one--
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-c-JoKq0Fw]Pt II) Long-range Turret/Reticle Basics-Ruger Mk III/2X Barska - YouTube[/ame]
I then went to 225 in this video and nailed the coffee cup on the 1st shot using the "crap" turret on a Barska--
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNafED1Rv7k]Pt I) 1st-Shot Ruger Mk III/2X Barska at 225 yds. [not 200] - YouTube[/ame]
Then i went to 300 yds. ran 50 MOA into the turret and nailed the can on the 1st shot, knowing that the bullet went ~12.5 ft. above the line of sight and came down right at the right spot to hit that itty bitty tgt. way the heck out there. Had the ballistic programs calcs been way off, i would've measured the needed correction with the plex reticle and then returretted correctly and probably come pretty close. I actually almost wish i would've missed it on the 1st shot, recalcd. it as above and nailed it on the 2nd shot--
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whC3fwmOk5c]Pt. II) 300-Yd. 1st-Shot Monster Can/Ruger Mk III/2x Barska - YouTube[/ame]
Applying the math behind these concepts is the most fun and rewarding part of it all for me.
Man, talk about rewarding. Doesn't get any better than that, IMO.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-c-JoKq0Fw]Pt II) Long-range Turret/Reticle Basics-Ruger Mk III/2X Barska - YouTube[/ame]
I then went to 225 in this video and nailed the coffee cup on the 1st shot using the "crap" turret on a Barska--
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNafED1Rv7k]Pt I) 1st-Shot Ruger Mk III/2X Barska at 225 yds. [not 200] - YouTube[/ame]
Then i went to 300 yds. ran 50 MOA into the turret and nailed the can on the 1st shot, knowing that the bullet went ~12.5 ft. above the line of sight and came down right at the right spot to hit that itty bitty tgt. way the heck out there. Had the ballistic programs calcs been way off, i would've measured the needed correction with the plex reticle and then returretted correctly and probably come pretty close. I actually almost wish i would've missed it on the 1st shot, recalcd. it as above and nailed it on the 2nd shot--
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whC3fwmOk5c]Pt. II) 300-Yd. 1st-Shot Monster Can/Ruger Mk III/2x Barska - YouTube[/ame]
Applying the math behind these concepts is the most fun and rewarding part of it all for me.
Man, talk about rewarding. Doesn't get any better than that, IMO.
devitor
Member
Firecat,
The BRJ is certainly a consideration. I'm wondering what the advantages are of a fluted barrel versus a regular heavy barrel. Two front swivel studs for me is something I can take or leave. For me, if I proceed, it would come down to which is the more accurate of the two rifles.
Greyfox,
I tested 300 with my 10/22. Now this rifle is the factory stock version that I bought used for $100. It came with a garbage scope and I re-scoped it with a Simmons 3-9. At 300 depending on the day and with that scope zeroed at 50 yd, you have to raise it 155 clicks. And either that scope is not recognizing each and every click or I'm pushing it beyond its limits, but even with that, I still have to shoot above the target. Maybe re-re-scoping the 10/22 and installing a 20-MOA rail on it might be worthwhile as opposed to buying a whole new gun. On the other hand, there is no way a 10/22 is going to have the accuracy of a Savage bolt action.
Jchristo...I am not familiar with the .17 HMR. All my rifles except the 10/22 are .308. I like to standardize calibers. I would not recommend using the .22LR for long-range hunting (in the case of that round anything over 50 - 100 yd when targeting small varmints) - but that's just me. The point of my project is to punch paper and practice on the cheap and in volume. Distance shooting a .22LR will build drop and wind compensation skills. What it won't teach you is recoil management or take away a flinch. I've not fired a .243, but according to This rifle recoil table, you're only getting hit with 11 lbs of force. The .308 hits you with 20 lbs. That's just about the threshold where it really starts to get bothersome. A .22LR will let you work on the fundamentals, on experiments, or just plain fun. To answer your question - MOA groups at 150 - depends on the round, the gun, and you. The only way you'll know is to go and shoot at that distance with your rifle and whatever ammo you use. You may have to experiment with different manufacturers and rounds till you get the sweet one.
My FAL could not hit the side of a barn at 300 with 147 grain FMJs made by Winchester. At 100 yd, if I got 4 MOA with that, I was having a good day. I loaded in some UltraMax 168 gn re-manufactured ammo, and got down to sub-MOA at 100. Same rifle.
The BRJ is certainly a consideration. I'm wondering what the advantages are of a fluted barrel versus a regular heavy barrel. Two front swivel studs for me is something I can take or leave. For me, if I proceed, it would come down to which is the more accurate of the two rifles.
Greyfox,
I tested 300 with my 10/22. Now this rifle is the factory stock version that I bought used for $100. It came with a garbage scope and I re-scoped it with a Simmons 3-9. At 300 depending on the day and with that scope zeroed at 50 yd, you have to raise it 155 clicks. And either that scope is not recognizing each and every click or I'm pushing it beyond its limits, but even with that, I still have to shoot above the target. Maybe re-re-scoping the 10/22 and installing a 20-MOA rail on it might be worthwhile as opposed to buying a whole new gun. On the other hand, there is no way a 10/22 is going to have the accuracy of a Savage bolt action.
Jchristo...I am not familiar with the .17 HMR. All my rifles except the 10/22 are .308. I like to standardize calibers. I would not recommend using the .22LR for long-range hunting (in the case of that round anything over 50 - 100 yd when targeting small varmints) - but that's just me. The point of my project is to punch paper and practice on the cheap and in volume. Distance shooting a .22LR will build drop and wind compensation skills. What it won't teach you is recoil management or take away a flinch. I've not fired a .243, but according to This rifle recoil table, you're only getting hit with 11 lbs of force. The .308 hits you with 20 lbs. That's just about the threshold where it really starts to get bothersome. A .22LR will let you work on the fundamentals, on experiments, or just plain fun. To answer your question - MOA groups at 150 - depends on the round, the gun, and you. The only way you'll know is to go and shoot at that distance with your rifle and whatever ammo you use. You may have to experiment with different manufacturers and rounds till you get the sweet one.
My FAL could not hit the side of a barn at 300 with 147 grain FMJs made by Winchester. At 100 yd, if I got 4 MOA with that, I was having a good day. I loaded in some UltraMax 168 gn re-manufactured ammo, and got down to sub-MOA at 100. Same rifle.
Bud Meadows
Well-Known Member
I have an Anschutz 1407 Standard Rifle topped with a BSA 6X24X40 with Mildot reticle. I shoot metallic silhouette at my local gun club, and it's a perfect setup. I hold dead on the chickens at 40 yards, use the first dot below the crosshairs for the 60 yard pigs, second dot for the 80 yard turkeys, and third dot down on the 100 yard rams. Can shoot 20X20 with it all day, using cheap Remington green box Target ammo. The beauty is, I never need to touch the elevation knob.
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Devitor
I did have to use Burris 20MOA elevation ring to get those results. I wouldn't write off the 10-22 accuracy too fast. I would try some different loads. I had several rimfire loads that would not group at all. Once I found a load it made a huge difference .
I did have to use Burris 20MOA elevation ring to get those results. I wouldn't write off the 10-22 accuracy too fast. I would try some different loads. I had several rimfire loads that would not group at all. Once I found a load it made a huge difference .
