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loading for sub 1MOA accuracy (components/equipment) and steps
- Thread starter Bigeclipse
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memtb
Well-Known Member
Yep! You're quite correct. However , for my applications ( big game under 600 yards), 3/4 to 1 moa, 3 shots, less than 1 minute between shots @ 300 yards with a 9.0 pound magnum rifle (no brake)....I feel is adequate! memtb
Bigeclipse
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2012
- Messages
- 1,972
I do use calipers to measure length to ogive and such. Sorry forgot to list them.
You are doing enough to get 1 MOA
Adjusting the powder or setting depth can make a significant difference and would provide better results than getting new toys for the reloading bench.
As mentioned by someone else, is your gun capable of 1 MOA? No matter how good your handloads are, you can't make a 2 MOA rifle shoot small groups. Some guns are easy to load for and will shoot sub MOA with about any ammo you try and will easily shoot 1/2 MOA with better ammo.
Some guns can be picky. I have a 223 that will shoot 1/2 MOA with a 35 gr bullet at 3400 FPS but if I load for max speed at 3700 FPS it won't even shoot 2 MOA.
Adjusting the powder or setting depth can make a significant difference and would provide better results than getting new toys for the reloading bench.
As mentioned by someone else, is your gun capable of 1 MOA? No matter how good your handloads are, you can't make a 2 MOA rifle shoot small groups. Some guns are easy to load for and will shoot sub MOA with about any ammo you try and will easily shoot 1/2 MOA with better ammo.
Some guns can be picky. I have a 223 that will shoot 1/2 MOA with a 35 gr bullet at 3400 FPS but if I load for max speed at 3700 FPS it won't even shoot 2 MOA.
John Klingenberg
Well-Known Member
+1 on a good barrel. A really good barrel is super forgiving. I have a 260 I use for general purposes culling and for the most part just goofing off shooting rocks. It wears a Criterion Remage from Northland. I dont clean my primer pockets, check trim length, and throw powder from a 55 after i set it for my charge weight. Its 1/2 moa all day. Barrels matter.
Mackinaw BOB
Well-Known Member
Sometimes something as simple as changing primers can tighten groups right up. From my limited reloading experience( been reloading about 2 years) little adjustments can reap great rewards, in the form of little tight groups. Good luck
just country
Well-Known Member
morning. I have micro seaters for most of my cartridges.
I shoot barnes bullets. when reloading different makers of
bullets I take the seating depth of my barnes bullets
since these bullets r very seating sensitive. then move
the seating depth forward until the accuracy node is
is accomplished. by using a micro seater a person can
record the accuracy node of every kind of bullet the
shooter uses. the micro is a very good tool.
justme gbot tum
I shoot barnes bullets. when reloading different makers of
bullets I take the seating depth of my barnes bullets
since these bullets r very seating sensitive. then move
the seating depth forward until the accuracy node is
is accomplished. by using a micro seater a person can
record the accuracy node of every kind of bullet the
shooter uses. the micro is a very good tool.
justme gbot tum
just country
Well-Known Member
morning. I have micro seaters for most of my cartridges.
I shoot barnes bullets. when reloading different makers of
bullets I take the seating depth of my barnes bullets
since these bullets r very seating sensitive. then move
the seating depth forward until the accuracy node is
is accomplished. by using a micro seater a person can
record the accuracy node of every kind of bullet the
shooter uses. the micro is a very good tool.
justme gbot tum
I shoot barnes bullets. when reloading different makers of
bullets I take the seating depth of my barnes bullets
since these bullets r very seating sensitive. then move
the seating depth forward until the accuracy node is
is accomplished. by using a micro seater a person can
record the accuracy node of every kind of bullet the
shooter uses. the micro is a very good tool.
justme gbot tum
DUSTY NOGGIN
Well-Known Member
starting with good brass will keep you out of the neck turning realm
another thing that i do with a standard die, if possible, is raise the expander up to where it starts sizing (expanding) the neck before the die body finishes sizing down (collapsing)
that holds brass centered while starting the expanding process , which can really reduce runout .. but can really work the brass if the 2 sizes are drastically different
another thing that i do with a standard die, if possible, is raise the expander up to where it starts sizing (expanding) the neck before the die body finishes sizing down (collapsing)
that holds brass centered while starting the expanding process , which can really reduce runout .. but can really work the brass if the 2 sizes are drastically different
Dusty, don't want to steal this thread, but....would you explain exactly what you are doing with the expander, cannot figure this one out??? If the expander plug is raised up too high it won't deprime the case, not sure what you are suggesting???? The expander plug starts expanding when the ram is brought down, not sure of the process you are describing.
DUSTY NOGGIN
Well-Known Member
separate operation using universal depriming tool first , then all prep work .... lube inside and out , then size all brass.... tumble all the lube off
on sale now at midway
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011420955?pid=172544
size the case full length as you normally would , pull the brass out until its gets freed from the neck squeezing portion of the die , bring the ram down just until you feel it wanting to start sizing the outside of the neck again, then, adjust the expander up until it either touches the brass or stops ((if your die stops first it will not do this function)) . if , you can touch the brass pull the brass out and lift your expander up just a little more (( you decide )) . essentially, overlapping the 2 sizing functions of the same die.
annealing before this operation will really reduce the felt resistance ,
you will stop feeling that area in the middle of the sizing operation where the brass isnt touching anything
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MNbogboy
Well-Known Member
All bullet brands benefit from full seating tests.
I have modified Berger' s seating test by moving in .010 increments (ie; .010, .020, .030, .040, .050.....090, etc) instead of .040 for the initial rough seating....second test same as first except .005 difference (ie; .015, .025, .035, .045, .065, .075, .085, .095 etc.). Group size & shape will shrink and expand as you cross nodes. Once narrowed down use .003 increments to cross and target nodes. There usually are 2 or 3 nodes for any given bullet.
With Berger's method seems like a good node could be missed completely and that to me is leaving too much on the table.
My .02,
Randy
I have modified Berger' s seating test by moving in .010 increments (ie; .010, .020, .030, .040, .050.....090, etc) instead of .040 for the initial rough seating....second test same as first except .005 difference (ie; .015, .025, .035, .045, .065, .075, .085, .095 etc.). Group size & shape will shrink and expand as you cross nodes. Once narrowed down use .003 increments to cross and target nodes. There usually are 2 or 3 nodes for any given bullet.
With Berger's method seems like a good node could be missed completely and that to me is leaving too much on the table.
My .02,
Randy
Ive just started one month ago what you are about to start. I bought Lapua and Sako brass. Expensive dies which were nice but found Lee mandrel neck dies and Redding body dies worked well. The things i found that helped were measuring equip to help me see what needed to be improved. A sinclair concentricity gauge revealed my .243 seater was low quality ( 5+ thou runnout at the ogive ) and LE Wilson case gauges and their case gauge depth micrometer to measure headspace so i could set up my sizing properly. My three rifles in .308, 243 and 223 now all shoot sub one Moa at 100 yards with factory O.A.L. seating specs for my handloads. The two bigger rifles have started hitting gongs at 650 yards. Still a bit beyond my skill though.
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crkckr
Well-Known Member
BE, it sounds to me that you're at the point where anything else you do will only give very small returns, accuracy wise. All of the little things we sometimes do add up to more steps, thus more time, and the individual steps, if done alone, will generally be almost impossible to measure. Add them all up and you could go from 1 moa to half that, but at the cost of several steps & more time invested... and that's assuming both you and your rifles are capable of shooting that well in the first place. Probably the steps you can try that might give you most in return will be seating depth & possibly a different primer brand, although I've never had a big change with different primers. I'm not saying it can't, just that it's never happened with any of my rifles. But it's an easy change to make and it certainly could make a difference, so it's always worth a try. Chasing the perfect neck tension is opening a can of worms! Concentricity can help but I suspect the returns might be relatively small for the investment. Plus, since you're working on 4 rifles, it's not necessarily true that all 4 will respond the same way to these minor changes! What might give you decent jump in accuracy with one rifle might not do a thing with the others.
If you really want to squeeze the Nth degree of accuracy out of all your rifles, you'll have to tinker with them one at a time, using all the tricks, until you're satisfied you've got it nailed down as best you can. Just don't get too depressed when you find you need to have seperate ammo for each rifle! Maybe not, but I know that's the way *my* luck runs!
Cheers,
crkckr
If you really want to squeeze the Nth degree of accuracy out of all your rifles, you'll have to tinker with them one at a time, using all the tricks, until you're satisfied you've got it nailed down as best you can. Just don't get too depressed when you find you need to have seperate ammo for each rifle! Maybe not, but I know that's the way *my* luck runs!
Cheers,
crkckr
