Leupold, Nightforce, or ??

[Pete Lincoln]

The bitter taste of poor quality lasts longer than the joy of a cheap bargain.
besides, i pay 1245 euro's for a 4-16x50 PMII. thats $1573. i can't get a NXS for that here. Until recently the NXS didn't have the 1/10th (1cm) miliradian adjustments that i need and want, the NXS also doesn't have 13 miliradians of elevation within 1 turn of the BDC. S&B glass is superior to the NXS. The best reticle is the Gen 2 Mildot, thats available in the PMII. US Optics has to many gimics and a bad past record.
I admit that S&B are teutonic blinkered thinkers whos attitude is " how could any one possibly want anything other than what we offer" which is why i have been trying to get them to build a 4-16x42 PMII with combined side paralax and reticle illumination for about 6 or 7 years now. But what they do offer at the moment is the very best Sniper scope available in the world bar none. Sniping is hunting, thats why i have a 3-12x50 PMII and a 4-16x50 PMII sat on rifles in my safe.
Anyway, i know what works for me and i know i can rely on S&B.
Pete

 

[STL_Shooter]

Nightforce with the NP-R2 reticle. Accurate shots produced in seconds from 0 - 1300 yards (on my rifle) with nary a single knob twist.

Do a search on the topic to find out why the R2 makes Nightforce the scope to get...

 

[COBrad]

I have to agree with MachV, the IOR with MP8 reticles are, IMO, great scopes and a really great value in top end euro optics. I've owned 5 of them now, and am still using two, and a pair of their binos. I've compared them side by side to Swaro, and the 5.5-22 Nightforce I once had, and I thought they were the best value amongst a group of the best available.

 

[Shawn Carlock]

I used to be a die hard Leupold man. tried my first Nightforce about 2 years ago and replaced all my serious rifle scopes with NXS-NPR2 of various power ranges. Once you try'em you will never go back.

 

[kac1345]

I agree Ric ...I think alot of people just dump money into the USO just because they think they look cool ...for instance there was this guy at the range the other day who had a stock Rem 7oo with a lam stock and he had the hugest USO sitting on top..absolulty ridiculas ..he could have bought three 700's just for that monster of a baseball bat sitting atop of his rifle!

ohh the best part was it was chambered in a Factory .223!

same thing with SB yeah they are great but who really needs a 35mm tube when you have the proper base on your rifle anyways...I guess it's just the name ..I know I know there are definate applications for a 35mm tube ect but come on not for tye average guy who even wants to shoot out at a mile!

Keith Out

 

[SCL]

Gents,
Take a peek here for additionl info - I got tired of seeing this question so much I published an article about it.
http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/USO_3YearsLater.asp

Bottom line IMHO:

USO is the best thing going for a U.S. Shooter engaged in long range and ultra long range shooting. The business has had a checkered past, but this seems to have been fixed with a vengeance thanks to JWIII in the past few years. All of my guns now wear USO glass.

S&B makes a very nice product, but its insanely overpriced with current dollar vs. Euro exchange rates, and the diversity of their product line sucks comapred to USO. Given current exchange rates, you can get a SN-3 (provided its not the 40mm tube/88mm obj monster) cheaper than the S&B PM's. I picked up a lightly used 40mm/88mm monster for less than a used PMII - I was patient and looked hard for it, but it was a fantastic bargain and worth every cent. USO supports the shooting commmunity and offers great deals on their top of the line scopes at SH. No one else does anything even close to this.

NXS: Great scopes for the money - will handle almost all shooting situations well - biggest problem is they don't offer a front focal plane reticle.

Loopy: Best value out there if you are on a budget and are smart enough not to pay full retail prices for their stuff. Stay away from the luminated reticle models - they are still a work in progress.

As always, beauty and quality are in the eye of the beholder - I was just lucky enough to do a side-by-side comparison of these scopes for over a year in all kinds of varying conditions. In the end, USO made the best product hands down.

SCL in Bogota

 

[sakofan]

SCL,
superb article. And not just the fact that I'm a USO fan either.
Very fair and objective view.

I really hate arguing when someone says something negetive about USO. They are a great company, that really doesnt need me to defend them...sakofan....

 

[Ian M]

We each have an answer as to which is the best scope available, USO, NXS, S&B - they are all great. For 99% of what most of the guys on this forum really need, I believe that they are all over-kill. Like driving a Kenworth to the 7-11 to pick up a jug of milk.

These scopes were designed for tactical use, withstanding abuse that hunters are not likely to ever be concerned about. In my opinion a reality is that these scopes are intended for a unique degree of use - the individual who is using one may be counting on it for their very lives. That is not going to happen with us hunters.

Why do hunters and long range shooters need such scopes. First, for the reliability of their turrets. There is a very real difference between the accuracy and repeatability of hunting grade scope turrets (including some of the very expensive ones) and tacticals. Second might be optics. Here the difference is not as significant since we can buy equal or at least superb optics in high-end hunting scopes. Third is probably ruggedness. Granted some hard-kicking big game cartridges in light rifles can be very tough on scopes, but we are not jumping out of choppers etc.

There might also be another difference in the actual use of the scopes - we can make choices as to the weather and topography we hunt in to a degree. This modifies the abuse factory. We can sit in the tent or camp when the weather is terrible, or choose not to climb a certain ridge if it looks nasty - consideration of the rifle and scope might come into such decisions.

We are seeing some very strong proponents for USO, S&B and NXS here. Bottom line is that I doubt anyone is going to change STL, Pete's or Rics opionion, nor SCL's. It does not really matter, maybe they are all right. SCL just gave us a very good review of the current tacticals, I thank him for that because he obviously speaks with authority and experience.

Me, I will shoot my NXS's, Nikons, Leupold MK4's and I will trust whatever scope I have out for that hunt or day to do a good job. I have used S&B's fairly extensively and do not like the color rendition (slight yellowish cast, even on the very newest tactical model that I just had a chance to work with) or outer edge softness, and being a numerically challenged dolt I did not get along with their metric turrets. I have never used USO so cannot comment on them, other than being given an incredible demo at the SHOT show as to how one can withstand pounding on a heavy wooden table. I would never do to that to a scope - but the scope took it. Optically that particular scope was superb.

Funny thing - we also use little one inch Bushnell 3200 10x "Tacticals" - hit our steel plates with nice regularity and many of my friends are killing game with no problems. They cost about 160 (US$) and do a job - they will not take abuse, the turrets go to hell on some, the optics are not tacky but they are certainly clear - and they cost 1/10 of the "real" tacticals we just discussed.

I have an ulterior motive for following this because I have switched virtually all of my hunting rigs over to tactical scopes and mounts. Even the short range rifles, such as the 7 1/2 pound .416 Ribgy Encore scope-killer. Enjoy the differences of opinions a lot.

The scope, rifle and ammo are only as good as the shooter. We would be better served by sharing marksmanship and field hunting tips.

 

[elkstalker300]

I have a Remington Sendero 300 ultra mag with a Shepherd 6x18 pwr scope mounted on it and Harris Bi-Pods. It is the first year using it and it killed 3 Muley bucks, the closest being 550 yrds and the longest being just over 1000 yds. 3 shots 3 bucks, and the clearest view through the scope I have ever seen. On the range it groups 3 shots that you can cover all 3 with a nikel @ 100 yds. I am so impressed with this set up.

 

[Guest]

Not sure who the USO fans are on here but I have just joined the ranks!!

I purchased a ST-10 for my 308.. I have to say I am more than impressed.. my groups arn't high 1's and 2's more like 3's and 4's but I attribute that to only 10X power... but I still ring 10" steel to 800+ yards every time...
I have the EREK knob... 1/2 min. clicks .. works really really well!!!!

I am quite please and really really happy about the fact is is made right here! I guess I have felt a stronger need to be more supportive of USA after the past few years...

 

[sakofan]

Ric, welcome to the club!

I love the EREK knob and the MOA reticle on my SN-3...sakofan.......

 

[ds]

Pat,

I have two decent scopes, a S&B PM2 4-16x50 and a Nightforce NXS 12-42x56. As to which is better, it depends. In terms of quality, or what I think is quality the S&B to me is best. It is a fine tactical scope (front focal plain reticule and one turn turret are very good features) and a very good optic. If you have a real tactical application I would go with the S&B . However if you are punching paper I prefer the NXS. The reticule blots out less of the target giving a more precise aim and the extra magnification helps in a couple of ways, firstly you can see your shots through the scope out to 200m and secondly you get a more precise aim (bisecting the ten ring as opposed to bisecting the black).

I shoot tactical matches but the NXS helps because often the targets have a particular zone to shoot eg an eye or CNS shot when you can see the zone it helps a lot. I suppose this in a way is defeating the object of the match but it is also a competition and I like to do well. That said I am a magnification junkie. You may not be. On the NXS I like the NPR-2 reticule.

Both scopes have got me to 1000m and more on my 6.5, with a decline base.

Best advise is to try everything you can before buying and see what you like.

David.

 

[ds]

Pat,

I have two decent scopes, a S&B PM2 4-16x50 and a Nightforce NXS 12-42x56. As to which is better, it depends. In terms of quality, or what I think is quality the S&B to me is best. It is a fine tactical scope (front focal plain reticule and one turn turret are very good features) and a very good optic. If you have a real tactical application I would go with the S&B . However if you are punching paper I prefer the NXS. The reticule blots out less of the target giving a more precise aim and the extra magnification helps in a couple of ways, firstly you can see your shots through the scope out to 200m and secondly you get a more precise aim (bisecting the ten ring as opposed to bisecting the black).

I shoot tactical matches but the NXS helps because often the targets have a particular zone to shoot eg an eye or CNS shot when you can see the zone it helps a lot. I suppose this in a way is defeating the object of the match but it is also a competition and I like to do well. That said I am a magnification junkie. You may not be. On the NXS I like the NPR-2 reticule.

Both scopes have got me to 1000m and more on my 6.5, with a decline base.

Best advise is to try everything you can before buying and see what you like.

David.

 

[cdmorten]

I'm a big fan of the Leupold M3. It's calibrated for a few different calibers. I personally shoot a .308. I use a 168gr match grade bullet and zeroed in the scope at 100M. Now when I go to the long range, if I'm shooting at 500M, I just move the elevation turret to the 5 and the bullet is right on the money. It's amazing. I didn't think it would actually work, but it worked perfectly.

I also own the Leupold M1 and it's a great scope as well, but it's not as slick as the M3. For Target shooting the M1 would be better because of the 1/4 moa elevation clicks. For hunting, you want the M3. It's simple, durable, reasonably priced and the optics are exellent.