Lesson learned

[Nomosendero]

Birdman
I think the spelling in English is contradiction. I would bet that you knew that, but in haste you made a human
error. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
So far, the mistakes that I have made with gun or bow have
been shots taken at close range due to brush or other factors unnoticed until the shot was made, & I try very hard
to notice anything that will or could alter my shot. I believe that if you shoot Deer, Hogs & other Big Game Animals that number well into 3 digits as I & others on this
forum have, you will make a mistake or two along the way.
Should I turn down any shot at close range now because I have made these errors in the past? I don't think so, but I
can & did learn from them.
I have not missed any Big Game at long range yet, but I have
not shot near as many animals at long range as some members
of this forum. If I get the chance to shoot alot of Big Game
at long range, no doubt mistakes/errors in judgement will
occur. Our responsibility is to always strive not to make
these mistakes & to enjoy our sport. The decisions that we
make in the field are sometimes quick decisions as was
Kirby's in this case. Kirby can & I am sure will speak for
himself & no doubt he has thought about this & what to do
next time. I am glad he shared this with us because it gives
us a chance to think about it also. I will walk a wide path
around those who act like everything they do in the field
goes according to plan. Does everything that you do at work
or with your family go perfect?

 

[sniper2]

Touche! Kirby positive comment from good hunter!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Nomosendero]

Kirby, I was interrupted a couple of times while entering
my post which obviously started before yours & your reponse
makes mine unnecessary I suppose.
BTW, I have blown several shots at long range Varmits as I
have done that alot.

 

[sniper2]

Roy you are very welcome, I don't know the cartridge you are working with but if you used an Ackley Improved shoulder
on the cartridge I sent the data on (40 degrees) you can easily best the velocities of my data, just a thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gifGood luck with your project!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

One last thing I would like to say on this topic and then I will be done with it.

Judging ranges from your location out to past 500 yards is extremely difficult for me personally. Rememeber that in most of my posts I am referring to my personal abilities and experience. I know full well there are those that are much more gifted in pure shooting ability.

Hell, most of my customers shoot my built rifles better then I do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

That said, and back to the topic at hand. Had I not had a reference range that was "close" to where the wolf was, I would not have taken the shot. Even if he was standing perfectly still. That is unless he would have given me time to use the MLR reticle to get a range measurement with some math. Being I am not a math professional he would have had to stand there quite a while. But even then I probably would not have taken the shot because again, my experience level with wolves is not what it is now.

I know know a timber wolf will stand 33 to 35" at the shoulders. Knowing that it works out pretty well for using the MLR or mil dot reticles to get a range estimation.

Point is Crane was guess COLD. No reference range, no quarter section lines to use for an educated guess, just had to make a cold range estimate at a very long range.

My comments about guessing within 100 or even 50 yards was directed to his situation where he would have to guess within less the 50 yards at +700 yards to make a killing shot on this buck.

It is vastly more accurate to have a reference range that is within 100 yards of a target and make an educated guess from that point to make a shot. Had Crane had a reference point like I did, I suspect we would all be able to share in his big buck with the pictures of it after the shot.

I pertaining to my situation, had I had time to estimate a more accurate range, I would have also had time to actually take a range where the wolf stood. But as things worked out, the Swarovski rangefinder stayed on my lap where it did the entire hunt when not in use because there was no time to use it at that point.

Contradiction, maybe to some, so be it. I feel I did nothing unethical and I know for a fact that Crane did the correct thing.

Nuff said, we all make errors in hunting. If you have not yet, YOU WILL eventually. And when that happens, those that have been in your shoes will understand and support you because it happens to us all, even those hunters that never shoot past 200 yards!!

Have a good day, enough on this topic in my opinion, Crane did right in my mind!! Lets go shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Guest]

then...
[ QUOTE ]
At this range you have to know the exact range, not within 100 yards or even 50 yards, you need the EXACT range or you should not shoot at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and now

[ QUOTE ]
Had I not had a reference range that was "CLOSE" to where the wolf was, I would not have taken the shot.

[/ QUOTE ]


Close & Exact.....not equal

 

[Fiftydriver]

Have a good day /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[stripes]

BIRDMAN

I have been a member of this forum fpr only a couple of months now. learned a great deal from the people here, and really enjoy reading their posts. from the little time that i have spent here i have gathered a few things about some of the members here. FIFTYDRIVER from what i have read is a very qualified smith and a very accomplished longrange hunter. reading this post what started out as a post about a mans longrange hunting experience. why do you have to turn it into a post of critism. do you have more respect for a rock @ 1000yds or a varmit @ this range. i think you missed kirby's point here.. i dont even know this man, but if you cant pick up the respect some people seem to have for him and his ability, take your [censored] somewhere else, if you wish to be arguementive, argue with your wife, if you have one, my guess would be she's already left you.

sorry if i've hurt any ones feelings, but i think i speak for several people.

stripes

 

[Jimm]

Bored out there in Wyoming are we ?

 

[Jon A]

Aren't wolves sort of considered "vermin" in Canada? Personally I go by different standards--I'd toss an unsure shot at a coyote, chuck, pd, etc that I'd never consider taking at a deer or elk. Just not the same thing to me.

 

[Guest]

Jon A, I agree completely.

If Kirby had said a wolf is a varmint and a deer is a trophy game animal It would have sufficed.

Obviously, he went into a long winded, defensive rebuttal.

Thats why this site is known as fiftydriver.yak

Congrats Len, your stuck with this guy and his fan club.

All the good guys went to Ric's site!

 

[Nomosendero]

If you agree that Wolves are vermin, then there was no logic
in bringing up the matter to begin with.

Actually, no explanation would have sufficed. I thought bringing Len into the discussion when he has been silent was very telling. I was born at night, but not last night.

I did not realize that everyone on this site was bad, nor do I understand how anyone could know that by viewing their
computer screen. If we are ALL bad, then why are you still
here?

BTW, I found Len's post, Len's living room was worth reading.

 

[arthurj]

This is ridiculous. There are a number of people who are ruining this site for me and I'm sure a lot of others. I could be wrong but I don't think Dave, Len, or Ian intend for this forum to be one big ethics discussion. The original poster made a good decision in his situation. Then "someone" jumps in and instigates this argument over the ethics of a shot Fiftydriver took. Fifty shouldn't have to defend his standpoint on the shot he took, thats ridiculous. I come to this site looking for information, and good hunting stories. Lately there is a lot less information and a lot more quarreling over the "ethics" of a shot, or whether or not "a certain bullet" can be used for killing animals. Maybe I am missing something, maybe the moderaters want some ethics discussions. I would suggest keeping your opinions to yourselves when it comes to ethics. If you don't want to shoot animals with matchkings, don't do it. If you wouldn't have taken "that shot" keep the **** to yourself. We are all old enough to form our own opinions when it comes to ethics. Yes I think Fifty is a good guy, but I don't know about this fan club bs. Watch the "whose online" feature of this site several times a day. This "fan club" consist of a very low percentage of the people that visit this site. If you don't like the guys on this site, don't come to it.
I've started visited Benchrest.com more lately just because there is so much more USEFUL information. There is none of this quarreling going on.

 

[goodgrouper]

Arthurj,
I think you hit the nail right on the head perfect. Unfortunate it is that some people let the intended purposeof this site turn from education and entertainment into bickering and irrational reasoning.


Birdman,
I probably should stay out of this but you made some points that are WAY irrational dude. Kirby is probably the most diplomatic guy on here and is one hell of a guy and one hell of a shooter. He anwered your question in fine manner and then you accuse him of a long winded, defensive rebuttal. If this site is called fifty driver.yak then that is fine with me. Let those who CAN contribute positively contribute all they want in my opinion.

Len keeps this place running the right direction by ousting trouble makers who detract from the overall quality of the site. So, if you have a problem with that, <font color="red"> THEN YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT LEN!! </font> I thank Len for the great site and praise him for the way he handles the tough job he has.


[ QUOTE ]
All the good guys went to Ric's site!




[/ QUOTE ]
This is hilarious! That type (the troublemakers) could hardly be called "good" and keep a straight face. Hecklers and naysayers will band together over there and then accuse members of this site for having our little groups or fanclubs! Quite ironic isn't it.

Well, I stand accused of being a fan of Kirby, Len, and the 5000 plus members of this site and all I can say is, "guilty as charged".
Have a nice day and don't drink too much of that Wyoming water, it must have something in it up there.