Lee and RCBS powder scale inaccuracy...

[SidecarFlip]

One thing is for certain, no 2 signatures weigh the same. The signature 'Mr. Ratz Arse' weighs less than 'Mr. Imgonnastickittoya P. Yakabafugnutz, Esq.', but then it all depends on what ink type it's written in, or if it was a felt tip pen......

Bottom line here is, if there was one ideal scale, thats what everyone would use and no other would be sold enough to stay in manufacture.

Lee, as an example tends to make lower end products (at a price point) for those reloaders just starting out and for some who appreciate the lower cost for whatever reason. Thats not the case.

I have Lee tools myself. I believe that most reloaders can differentiate between a good tool and a junk tool.

Me, I never cared much for he W&M people. It appeared to be a politically created position for a good ole boy to collect wages from the populace while ****ing off merchants.

...I'll go make some popcorn and await a response.....

 

[Topgun 30-06]

You might want to rethink your remark regarding W&M, as it's what the entire world economy lives and dies with. Without equity in the marketplace and the W&M staff throughout the world, who else would determine if you're getting the correct amount of anything you buy whether it's a pound of powder, a gallon of gas, etc.? It has been proved many times that the W&M person more than pays for themselves many times over with the work they do insuring you don't lose your rearend in any type of a transaction involving goods and services! Nuff said and don't choke on your popcorn!!!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Opinions expressed on this site are the sole opinions of the poster.......

You are retired (I think) or have found other meaningful employment so don't live in the past. Not only is the past detrimental to your health (causes ulcers and whatnot), it's the past. You can't change it, even if you want to....

While I agree with your premise that a quality beam scale (with the beam resting on jeweled pivots and the beam dampened by the attraction-replulshion effect of magnetism) is certainly more inherently accurate that a digital readout thats actuated by an electronic encoder acting on a strain gage of questionable manufacture and orign (read Chinese)

Analog is always better than digital in minute increments, unless the digital readout is capable of displaying the smallest amount of deviation permissible (as in quality digital readout machinist measuring tools).

With an analog beam scale, the issue of parallelax comes into play as well as the accuracy of the graduations and how they are applied to the beam and the indicating surface, which is why, the purchaser of a beam scale must buy a quality one and in this case O'haus is a recognized manufacturer both in quality control and end quality. That makes them the logical choice no matter how the scale is branded (Ohaus provides their units to an assortment of manufacturers).....

IOW.... Don't beat it to death. You made your point. You can't change the world. Won't happen.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I agree with the middle of your post, but am at a loss as to your opening and closing remarks about my being retired and living in the past, etc. You obviously don't realize how close the W&M community works with all the reputable businesses out there in commerce though because most are very happy to see their tax dollars helping them as much or more than the customers they service and do business with. Peace Bro!

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'm in a philosophical mood. Must be the weather....

 

[Sully2]

I agree with the middle of your post, but am at a loss as to your opening and closing remarks about my being retired and living in the past, etc. You obviously don't realize how close the W&M community works with all the reputable businesses out there in commerce though because most are very happy to see their tax dollars helping them as much or more than the customers they service and do business with. Peace Bro!

Do you actually think anyone besides yourself......and especially 99% of the people reading and posting on this site....give a big rats *** about the WM..? If you do...I have a news flash for you...!

Why did we ever vary from the Lee VS RCBS debate??

 

[Bart B]

My best experience with exact charge weights versus metered ones that have a 3/10ths grain spread was back in '91 when working with a few others developing loads for a new Sierra match bullet for the .308 Win. round. We ended up choosing IMR4895 as metered charges with a 3/10ths grain spread produced the best accuracy.

Several thousand rounds were loaded with new Winchester cases and Fed. 210M primers. 20 rounds picked at random shot into 2.7 inches t 600 yards. In a couple dozen or so different barrels, that load shot no worse than 1/2 MOA at 600 yards based on 15+ shots per group. In a test with exact charge weights, the accuracy was no better.

Which means to me, if the right powder's selected for a given bullet, it doesn' matter to much how precise the charge weight is.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Bart B---I think your last sentence pretty well nails it for most people that reload. However, there still seem to be quite a few out there that feel they need to be within one kernel of powder of their target weight for every load that goes through their press. I think if everyone stayed within the +/-deviation you mentioned that they would be fine and if they can cut it down lower than that without spending thousands of dollars and their valuable time, more power to them.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Do you actually think anyone besides yourself......and especially 99% of the people reading and posting on this site....give a big rats *** about the WM..? If you do...I have a news flash for you...!

Why did we ever vary from the Lee VS RCBS debate??

***I think you're way off in your statement and I hope most would give a big rat's *** because the w&m part of reloading is the most important part that if not followed properly will lead to dire consequences!

 

[TracySes23]

I would hope you could see the beam moving as you trickle powder onto the pan as that's the benefit of using it as you mentioned. How are you going to watch it move when you weigh a piece of paper, take that paper off and sign your name on it, and then put it back on? That signature wouldn't weigh but a small fraction of a kernel of powder and you're saying you can see that, so how much did the beam move and what kind of reference point did you use? Have you ever used a digital scale of any type to make the statements you have on this thread that were incorrect about them?

The beam moved approximately .005" - .007". The 1/64" graduations on a precision 6" are .0156" apart. .005" is 1/3 of that space. Magnifying it does help.
My beam scale has 5 lines, plus or minus that approximate 1/10 grain. It actually moves 3 1/2 marks when I change the weight by .5 grains. The graduations are .060" apart. I can easily see a movement of .010". I worked as a machinist & toolmaker for 46 years. Seeing a movement that small is something I did daily. It is not as big a feat as you might imagine. It takes practice to consciously notice very small changes like that, but with practice, it becomes a way of life in my trade. So if the zero line is exactly lined up with the line in the beam and the weight is change by less that 1/10 grain, it's easy to see if those lines between the are no longer lined up exactly. If the knife edges and the v-shaped block are clean as they should be, then that beam will move & the lines will no longer line up. If you beam scale isn't working properly it may not move at all. I clean my knife edges and the v-blocks every time I use my scale.
For my own satisfaction, I just zeroed my beam scale with the pan in place. I then placed one granule of Varget in the pan & it was easy for me to see the amount it moved. It wasn't much, but it did move. I could walk away from it & look at it 10 minutes later & it's still quite apparent the line no longer lined up. With my old eyes it is easier if I use a bit of magnification. Trying to see an extremely small weight does more for me to know the beam is swinging freely as it should. If it doesn't move that minute (very small) amount, I know something needs to be corrected.
Maybe you don't have the ability to do this, I don't really know or care. But I know damned well I can & I can do it repeatedly.

You might be pleasantly surprised if you spent some time practicing to do this yourself.
You and everybody else has the right to believe what they want.

 

[old_heli_logger]

The beam moved approximately .005" - .007". The 1/64" graduations on a precision 6" are .0156" apart. .005" is 1/3 of that space. Magnifying it does help.
My beam scale has 5 lines, plus or minus that approximate 1/10 grain. It actually moves 3 1/2 marks when I change the weight by .5 grains. The graduations are .060" apart. I can easily see a movement of .010". I worked as a machinist & toolmaker for 46 years. Seeing a movement that small is something I did daily. It is not as big a feat as you might imagine. It takes practice to consciously notice very small changes like that, but with practice, it becomes a way of life in my trade. So if the zero line is exactly lined up with the line in the beam and the weight is change by less that 1/10 grain, it's easy to see if those lines between the are no longer lined up exactly. If the knife edges and the v-shaped block are clean as they should be, then that beam will move & the lines will no longer line up. If you beam scale isn't working properly it may not move at all. I clean my knife edges and the v-blocks every time I use my scale.
For my own satisfaction, I just zeroed my beam scale with the pan in place. I then placed one granule of Varget in the pan & it was easy for me to see the amount it moved. It wasn't much, but it did move. I could walk away from it & look at it 10 minutes later & it's still quite apparent the line no longer lined up. With my old eyes it is easier if I use a bit of magnification. Trying to see an extremely small weight does more for me to know the beam is swinging freely as it should. If it doesn't move that minute (very small) amount, I know something needs to be corrected.
Maybe you don't have the ability to do this, I don't really know or care. But I know damned well I can & I can do it repeatedly.

You might be pleasantly surprised if you spent some time practicing to do this yourself.
You and everybody else has the right to believe what they want.

Wow, what are the odds that I need one more granule of Varget to finish my latest load… Would you be willing to ship it? I'll pay postage and HazMat fees…
I'm getting a cup of coffee, I'll be back for more entertainment. LOL!!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Wow, what are the odds that I need one more granule of Varget to finish my latest load… Would you be willing to ship it? I'll pay postage and HazMat fees…
I'm getting a cup of coffee, I'll be back for more entertainment. LOL!!

Use non-dairy creamer........