Ladder test target, and how to interpit it

[Jimm]

Teeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnn seeeeeeeeeeeeeecccccccccoooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnddddssssss /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Isssssssss thhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt iiiiiiiiinnnnnnn like, elephant years or sumthin? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifOh well, hey thanks Adam for the sharing. Jim

 

[abinok]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like you to post the other targets you mentioned with an explanation of which load you chose and why so if my ladder test dosen't come out as obvious as this one I will have an idea of how to read it. If it isn't too much trouble.

Or better yet, I will post pictures of my first ladder test to get your advice on reading it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I will post some targets when im able. My digital camera isn't cooperating of late. The 300WM ladder just barely fit on the scanner so I did it. Maybe ill take a few pics with the old film camera and scan them when they are developed. When you get your ladder done, post some pics for sure. The more people who try it and like this method, the more it will spread.
[ QUOTE ]
elephant years or sumthin?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, Jimm. once in a while Len offers a million dollar prize to the newest member.... with the same time limit, so you can blame it on him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[royinidaho]

Gettin' ready for the ladder test come Saturday, weather permitting.

Been burning some 300gr solids and silver tips to kinda get used to the thing before I get my guts up for the bench work.

Starting to rationalize already. Think I can do a decent test with 8 or 10 shots. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif we'll see /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[4ked Horn]

If you are going to wear a heavy shirt and jacket to hunt in then wear the same thing to test in. Might help with the recoil issue at least a little.

 

[royinidaho]

4KED,
I have a specially built shooting vest. Cut a piece of some kind of special purpose black insulation about an inch thick and hot glued it to the left shoulder of an old rough out leather vest that I wear when the wind blows in the winter.

There is no "hurt" at all in the recoil but there is a lot of movement even with that pretty firm ruger pat.

I started at 67.5 grains of W760 and loaded to 77gr. Ken Waters says that a max load and gave him 2646 fps many moons ago. We'll see what the chrony says come Saturday.

BTW, you're flat hooked. The bullet makers are gonna make some money offa you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[4ked Horn]

You ain't kidding. This is my wish list from all the shooting we did last weekend.

We will have to see how long it takes to put this list of "gotta have" stuff behind me.

 

[royinidaho]

4KedHorn,

Not trying to hijack the ladder thread will post results tomorrow if I can be confident of 20 shots with 40+ lbs of recoil /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Some tho'ts on your list. Regarding the cleaning rod guide.
I resized a case without pulling the button back through it. Thus its a bit undersized. Drill a hole centered on the flash hole large enought for the cleaning rod.

Soldered the case, trying to keep it centered, to a tube that was long enough to reach over the tang,or so.

Built a bushing for the back end of it.

Made sure my cleaning rod was long enough so that I never had to lift the handle over the but.

You would know better than me if this is a mechanically sound idea. My bigest problem was that my tubing turned out to be zirconium and wouldn't solder worth squat.

Any way maybe worth the 19 bucks.

Also, what't the reasoning behind the 270 nylon brush?

 

[4ked Horn]

I'm going on the advice of Goodgrouper and BrianB on these items. Brian says to use the Sinclair cleaning rod guide made specifically for the Rem 700 in .308 to help keep cleaning stuff out of the action area. GoodGrouper says that when using the copper melt enzyme for cleaning the barrel you are supposed to use an undersized bore brush and you wrap the cleaning patch around it. It has to be nylon because if it was a bronze brush the cleaning enzyme eats it all up.

I also have never owned a one piece rod and everyone tells me that an aluminum rod can hold abrasives that can scratch the barrel.

 

[royinidaho]

Yep, na na on alum. rod. Trend is the black ones. I use a stainless as I'm too cheap to replace it plus with wipe out the brush runs down the bore are minimal. Went to Sportsmans Warehouse in IF and they had no copper melt. Bummer.

 

[abinok]

Im one of the one piece stainless rod guys too... im still not entirely convinced that coated rods are that wonderful. My steel rod is made by proshot, good stuff.
let us know how your ladder test turn out roy, while im fishing tomorrow ill cringe once in a while for you.
ps, need a good chiropractor?

 

[royinidaho]

OK another day of firsts. First day of "seriously" shooting a 375 H&H from the bench and first shot @ posting pictures.

The target

http://www.hunt101.com/img/273693.jpg

The ladder extension - 4 more shots (total of 25 for the session.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/273701.jpg

Data Table
http://www.hunt101.com/img/273696.jpg

Plot of velocities
http://www.hunt101.com/img/273703.jpg

We'll see if the images made it.

Well I said I was gonna do it and I did it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Am I nuts or what?

Did the bore sight thing and first bullet hit high on the target (Marked S in that top bunch of holes). Started cranking the down knob. Went way too far. Cranked it up, not far enough. Cranked again, that's shot #4.

Didn't change scope settings for the rest of the test. Paralex on that old weaver 4x is about 6" worth @ 100. I was a little ways into the test before I discovered a way to eliminate it. Can't remember where it was. I was using only the center part of the scope to minimize paralex and there is no way that is the cause of the POI jumps at lower velocities.

Just for grins I seated the bullets just off the riflings. Figger's I milk a little more case capacity out of it. Dumb, dumb idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Lack of powder room is not a problem with the 375 (expecially for a 9 1/2 LB bench gun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I think I see a node with shots 11 thru 14 but the velocity is too low for my liking (may as well be shooting an 06 w/220s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

If shot #20 wasn't a fluke and possibly indicated the rifle was moving to another node I was pretty much committed to raise the ladder, so to speak (sick humor).

By the way, had to switch shoulders at shot #17 maybe that's why it dropped so low??? If the first shot from the shoulder shift was a problem, shots 16 thru 19 might look like something. But still too slow (the elphalants in SE ID are bad dudes, not to mention the buffs and ya need all you can get when one of those thick skinned pot-guts runs up your leg).

Note the the last four shots on the data plot. They show reasonable increases with an increase of powder. ALso note the drop in velocity with the second 77gr shot. That is caused by seating the bullet deeper, just to the bottom edge of the crimping ring, for teh last 4 shots..

Also note that W760 seems to increase velocity in spurts. It gets pretty flat then jumps. Maybe its the air space with that longer seat I was using.

The last 4 shots are a pretty decent group for using 4 different powder weights. I'll work around a couple of those and that should use up that box of 50 except about 5 which will last me a lifetime at the rate I'm able to find elk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[abinok]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I said I was gonna do it and I did it Am I nuts or what?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Paralex on that old weaver 4x is about 6" worth @ 100.

[/ QUOTE ] Does this mean this ladder test was shot at 100Yds? whas distance was it shot at roy?

[ QUOTE ]
Also note that W760 seems to increase velocity in spurts. It gets pretty flat then jumps.

[/ QUOTE ]
You will see the jumps with pretty much any powder, I have not seen many that were close to linear.

Its hard to know for sure whats a node and whats not if you are swiching stuff in the middle... especially shoulders. Its not like I can really blame you, I probably would have thought about it too after taking a beating for a bit.
My bet would be on the 16-19 area as well... its hard to know swiching shoulders and all... of course if its still not fast enough for what you want, it does not really matter anyway. How much more velocity are you looking for? my nosler manual shows this powder as giving the fastest velocity for this bullet weight. Were you getting pressure signs at 77gr? You shoudn't hit 100%load density untill 79.5 or so depending on the shape of the hornady bullet youve got.

 

[4ked Horn]

<font color="red">Here it is again with pictures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font>

OK another day of firsts. First day of "seriously" shooting a 375 H&amp;H from the bench and first shot @ posting pictures.

The target

The ladder extension - 4 more shots (total of 25 for the session.

Data Table

Plot of velocities

We'll see if the images made it.

Well I said I was gonna do it and I did it Am I nuts or what?

Did the bore sight thing and first bullet hit high on the target (Marked S in that top bunch of holes). Started cranking the down knob. Went way too far. Cranked it up, not far enough. Cranked again, that's shot #4.

Didn't change scope settings for the rest of the test. Paralex on that old weaver 4x is about 6" worth @ 100. I was a little ways into the test before I discovered a way to eliminate it. Can't remember where it was. I was using only the center part of the scope to minimize paralex and there is no way that is the cause of the POI jumps at lower velocities.

Just for grins I seated the bullets just off the riflings. Figger's I milk a little more case capacity out of it. Dumb, dumb idea Lack of powder room is not a problem with the 375 (expecially for a 9 1/2 LB bench gun

I think I see a node with shots 11 thru 14 but the velocity is too low for my liking (may as well be shooting an 06 w/220s )

If shot #20 wasn't a fluke and possibly indicated the rifle was moving to another node I was pretty much committed to raise the ladder, so to speak (sick humor).

By the way, had to switch shoulders at shot #17 maybe that's why it dropped so low??? If the first shot from the shoulder shift was a problem, shots 16 thru 19 might look like something. But still too slow (the elphalants in SE ID are bad dudes, not to mention the buffs and ya need all you can get when one of those thick skinned pot-guts runs up your leg).

Note the the last four shots on the data plot. They show reasonable increases with an increase of powder. ALso note the drop in velocity with the second 77gr shot. That is caused by seating the bullet deeper, just to the bottom edge of the crimping ring, for teh last 4 shots..

Also note that W760 seems to increase velocity in spurts. It gets pretty flat then jumps. Maybe its the air space with that longer seat I was using.

The last 4 shots are a pretty decent group for using 4 different powder weights. I'll work around a couple of those and that should use up that box of 50 except about 5 which will last me a lifetime at the rate I'm able to find elk

 

[royinidaho]

Shot @ 100 yds

Was attempting to eliminate parallex by using only the center part of the lens by backing off the scope. (Scope came w/the trade) Then I found that if I put the reticle intersection at the bottom of the scope.

I had some R-P factory loads w/300gr solids that went in the high 2600s. I pulled a solid and inserted a Hornady and got 2619 so I was expecting that velocity.

The R-P factory load is 81.5gr of a powder that very closely resembles W760. That would be something if RP were using WW powders....

@ 79gr of W760 I got the 2536. There are no/none pressure signs. We mic'd the cases at both ends of the "ladder". Nothing abnormal.


The whole deal wasn't very punishing except for shot #15, I think I was getting a little cocky/mucho or something and my shoulder joint took a direct hit. I slacked off on my concentration regarding butt placement. I shot #16 and said, "time to change"

W/the 300 gr @ a good solid 2500 I'm getting 165gr 06 muzzle energies @ 300 yds. Hell, that otta be enough.

Also, I've been shooting low recoil rifles for so many years I'm not sure I really know how to "shoulder" a thumper.

Also Winchester lists 77gr of W760 with both the 270 &amp; 300bgr bullets. That doesn't make much sense to me.

And, I'm using new cases that have the sizing button pulled through to even them and have chamfered the mouths. I noticed that when seating the bullets some were really hard to seat which is unusual with a boat tail design.