Ladder test of .308 with H4895. Am I doing this right?

[Doozy]

I'm very new to reloading.

Just shot a 10-shot ladder using H4895 ranging between 41.0 to 43.7 gr (using a 168 gr Hornady BTHP bullet out of a 20" barreled AR-10 platform). By the results (see chart below) it looks like the sweet spot would be to use around 43.1 grains (because even if that specific shot was a little low, that's where the grade/incline in fps seems to plateau; I have three data points where there's only about 17 fps difference between them. (Another plateau seems to be around 41.3-41.6).

Am I doing this right?

I'm thinking my next step would to use my 43.1 grains of H4895 and alter the distance to lands... maybe start with 3x loads at 0.040" away, another three at 0.080", another 3x at 0.120"....

Thank you for your advice.

 

[Doozy]

By the way, how in the world does Hornady's Superformance factory ammo get such great velocities? This same rifle shoots a Superformance SST 165 grain bullet at an average of 2792 fps.

I'd like to use whatever they are using.

 

[JMW67]

Myself I would load three at 43.5 and try a group if its groups well play with seating

 

[Beluebow]

What does the actual target look like?

 

[Lefty38-55]

Now that's an interesting way to try it! Now I can't go into the technical details as well as Dan Newberry can, who came up with the Opticmal Charge Weight (OCW) method, but in his method you also plot the shot impact. In fact, he has a few very interesting OCW tests using 6.5s where people were chastising him for ignoring the ES of the load velocities, but in the end, the nodes his method identified were clearly superior. At long range too, even though they weren't the loads with the 'best' velocity values that some chase. The (his) lesson is, chasing the best velocity statistical numbers is foolish if the bullet is exiting the bore whilst the barrel is moving (sine wave) at its most!

With that all said, for using the IMR version of the 4895 powdah (yes, I know they're different, but close ... ) and a 168-grain bullet (albeit the SMK), his sweet spot was 43.6 grains - see attached. Maybe for what you already know, you could try his method (3 shots per load) from 42.8 to 43.2 or 43.4 by 0.2 grain increments, and plot the impacts? I for one would be most curious. Get the velocity data too.

Without having Dan's 'cheat sheet' (that he publishes on his website [see below] for various popular calibers) ?perhaps? your method helps to pinpoint (and to do it faster, with less components used) a powder value/range to then further explore via his OCW method? FWIW I'm going to try your method, followed by my typical OCW approach, after I get done glass-bedding my latest project (Ruger No. 1 in 7mm Rem Mag, with freakin' incredible wood!).

Home

6XC Test/115 DTAC =

 

[Doozy]

So, I didn't think where it was landing mattered, since I was just doing one shot of different powder loads. I didn't concentrate as much as I would have if I was doing an accuracy test.

But attached is the target... Ten shots with the least amount of powder in the top right, then progressively moving in a counter-clockwise direction, and ending closer to the bullseye.

 

[sierracharlie338]

By the way, how in the world does Hornady's Superformance factory ammo get such great velocities? This same rifle shoots a Superformance SST 165 grain bullet at an average of 2792 fps.

I'd like to use whatever they are using.

Did you hit pressure at the end of your ladder? If not you might be able to reach close to that number.

As a side note I have some Hornady black ammo for my Grendel that must be fairly hot cause it's trashing my brass

 

[asd9055]

So, I didn't think where it was landing mattered, since I was just doing one shot of different powder loads. I didn't concentrate as much as I would have if I was doing an accuracy test.

But attached is the target... Ten shots with the least amount of powder in the top right, then progressively moving in a counter-clockwise direction, and ending closer to the bullseye.

Don't let them confuse you with the target. It has to be at 300 yards or longer to be significant. Really IMHO is you should be doing the combination target/velocity....but what you did works as well

 

[Texis]

I read "H4895" in every 308 forum on the internet, but I couldn't make it shoot in an 18" barrel or a 26" barrel.. probably me
Moved to Varget all is well. Also found CFE223 to work very well and wicked fast and much easier to find!!
With 168's I use 43.5 Varget or 45.1 CFE223.
Btw.. I workup loads the exact same way. Find a node (as you have) then I make 9 rounds, 3 sets of 3 on different COALs.
Good luck

 

[Lefty38-55]

Don't let them confuse you with the target. It has to be at 300 yards or longer to be significant. Really IMHO is you should be doing the combination target/velocity....but what you did works as well

FYI, if you watch Dan's latest videos, he's now recommending 100-yards to find the node 'range' and then 100 and longer range to do the fine tuning (where seating depth is then also tried) but only AFTER you have the charge for the node nailed down.

If that '6XC' video I linked isn't the one, look for his others that also use those colored targets shown.

 

[asd9055]

FYI, if you watch Dan's latest videos, he's now recommending 100-yards to find the node 'range' and then 100 and longer range to do the fine tuning (where seating depth is then also tried) but only AFTER you have the charge for the node nailed down.

If that '6XC' video I linked isn't the one, look for his others that also use those colored targets shown.

In the past, I did OCW, and then Ladder Test, then there were a few versions of Ladder tests. They all work, but IMHO a combination of muzzle velocity and targetat 300 yards or longer is the best. But they all work

 

[Mark37082]

It sounds like you are following Scott Satterlee's 10 Shot ladder test. I'm trying this method as well on a couple of rifles. First of all the 308 is one of those rifles where there are so many powders that will work really well. You can burn out barrel by the time you test all the combinations of powder, bullets, seating depth, primers, brass, etc. However, that's more than half the fun of it to me. My 308 liked 4064 with varget, and IMR4895 being reasonably close using a sporter pencil barrel on a Browning HC Speed. I'm no expert, but I would try try both flat spots to see if I would get a reasonable ES and accuracy before moving to tinkering with seating depth IMHO.

 

[Lefty38-55]

In the past, I did OCW, and then Ladder Test, then there were a few versions of Ladder tests. They all work, but IMHO a combination of muzzle velocity and targetat 300 yards or longer is the best. But they all work

.. can't disagree there! Whatever you do ... tight groups! Cheers

 

[WYOHTF]

By the way, how in the world does Hornady's Superformance factory ammo get such great velocities? This same rifle shoots a Superformance SST 165 grain bullet at an average of 2792 fps.

I'd like to use whatever they are using.

I couldn't get Superformance to work in two different.308's. The stuff Hornady is loading in there ammo is different than the powder we all get, or at least it seems.
IMR4064
R17
And Varget- this was beast results for me
I was loading 165 SST