Kimber 84m Montana ?

[ol mike]

Any of you backpackers have any expierence with them ?

The little 7-08 @ 5lb 2oz looks very nice ,it will be used for wilderness area mule deer/black bear hunting.
I've read all i can find over @ 24hr campfire and i think the kimber is my favorite =made in the USA etc..
Add 3x9-40 zeiss conquest w/ turrets----- would make a nice walking outfit more-so if you had a big buck boned out in your backpack.
Appreciate any info --Mike

 

[petenz]

They are nice, look great, feel great, and the light weight is awesome


Problem is that accuracy problems from the factory are very common it seems - bad bedding and bad crowns seem to be the most common suspects.

 

[ol mike]

After reading all the threads i could find over at 24hr campfire [kimber cult] i believe ''you hear bad news -over good news''.
There are a few people who said themselves -they had a kimber liteweight rifle and ''thought'' it was not accurate ,then after listening to others who had mastered shooting them -they learned how to hold and handle them better.
One guy thought he had a dud and sent it back to kimber -they shot it and sent it back w/a proof target of its accuracy capabilities[three -three shot groups that averaged .7"].
He spoke w/kimber and someone there gave him a few tips he tried when he received the rifle back --he immediately shrank his groups to inside an inch.
The main problem is you can't let them free recoil without getting high flyers -or so i've read.

I have seen several pictures of rauchy bedding but no pictures of bad crowns -poor crowns happen -i just haven't seen pictures.They use a slave action to bed all the rifles -they do not bed each rifle with ''its'' action ,so that isn't really a true bedding job -but better than nothing at all.

Many people have kimbers that shoot 1/2" three shot groups -they get fired up when someone goes out buys a kimber in 300wsm shoots a 2" group w/ factory ammo -then crap talks kimber accuracy.

The 'learning' how to shoot a particular rifle reminds me of when i bought my pellet rifle -a gamo cfx royale -fixed barrel -1000fps .I bought an assortment of pellets to see which ones it liked -it didn't like anything -shot 4-5" groups at 30yds.
I thought -what a *** -did some reading and read that magnum spring air pellet rifles did not shoot well off of a rest -i tried their method of holding the pellet rifle ''buttery soft'' just let it lay in your hands and when the spring reacts pay attention to which way it recoils and correct the aiming point.
Immediately it started shooting dime size groups -i would lay my wrist over front and rear sand bags to be as steady as possible -then when i got over the idea that i needed a pellet shaped like a bullet and went to the heavy flat-nose target pellets i could literally shoot pellets into the same hole at 30yds.5-6 shots would make a hole the size of a pencil eraser -kills ground squirrels at 80yds and sounds like someone sneezed when fired.

Anyway i'm a believer that sometimes you have to change what you've 'always' did sometimes.
Also every manufacturer sends out a dud now and then but wanted to hear from people on this board w/ kimber opinions/expierence.Thanks -Mike

 

[petenz]

My comment was based on the experiences of 6 people I know with kimber rifles, only two of those shot well out of the box, the others required some work... this is 4 montanas, 1 provarmint and 1 od the classic? model

I was very interested in buying one at one stage, they are really nice rifles

 

[ol mike]

I've read the stock design is great on the montana -the recoil sopposedly isn't felt nearly as much as you'd think.

Have you shot one of them Petenz ? or do your friends feel that way about the recoil ?

I just read today on 24hr campfire -a guy bought a 338 federal =308 necked up to 338 -lots of BIG problems -the firing pin wasn't set up right and did not hit the primer hard enough to fire consistantly.
And the chamber was rough as a cobb -with stuff like this happening enough to nearly keep threads going about kimbers -i have to say they must feel powerful good -must put a guy under a spell or something.
If rem/chesters etc. were coming down the pike like this -NOBODY- would buy one.
Did your buddies tinker w/ their rifles or have to send them back ?

I have had to tinker w/every remington i've ever owned and only had one that couldn't be tuned up enough to suit me w/ the factory barrel.

I have no problem rebedding a kimber and polishing a crown -but big stuff like the faulty firing pin/rough chamber would tick me off.
Thanks for your time -Mike

Forgot to say -i thought about building a lightweight but i'd have way more in it than the montana and probably no lighter.

 

[petenz]

I've shot one in .260 which is hardly a kicker, but it was very soft to shoot

As I recall, one guy sold the rifle because he couldn't get it to shoot no matter what he did, the others mucked around and got them shooting.


Personally I went with building a rifle on a remmy model 7 action, with high tech specialties stock and custom barrel... all up it's going to cost me a little more than a kimber I guess but it's made to my specs in a calibre you can't get a Kimber in.

If they ever sort out their apparent QC issues I would not object to buying a Montana in .260, they are a beautiful little rifle and once sorted, they do shoot well, my mates pro-varmint shoots 1/4MOA

 

[cmfi3]

I own 2 of the 8400's, one classic in a 300 WSM, and a montana in a 325 WSM. Both shoot about 3/4 MOA with full velocity loads, although one did take a little work I am happy with these 2 factory rifles. I have 2 friends that have the 300WSM in the classic's and one shoots about like mine and the other not so well, but he hasn't worked with it as much as I would of.

Recoil is not bad at all with the 300 and 180gr bullets, the 325 is a little stout with the 200 gr but is very manageable.

My montana weights under 7lbs with 2.5-8x36 vari-x 3 and full magazine and is a real pleasure to pack into the backcoutry. You can carry these kimbers in rough elk country for a week and it doesn't wear you down like a heavier rifle does. If one wasn't into spending a ton of money on a custom lightweight mountain rifle the kimber 8400 would be my pick for sure.

By the way the montana is for sale on the "gun for sale" page.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

...Many people have kimbers that shoot 1/2" three shot groups -they get fired up when someone goes out buys a kimber in 300wsm shoots a 2" group w/ factory ammo -then crap talks kimber accuracy.

One little problem here Mike.... When I read all the different posts in the various shooting and hunting forums, I find the more recent Kimbers to get most mixed reviews by far. I mean by far. Some get good rifles and some get big headaches. To palm this off on lack of shooting skill and experience is a bunch of BS. I have never owned a Kimber, but until recently thought they were a great rifle. They definitely have *REAL* problems, not imaginary, you can do your own search, or I can do one for you and show more than two dozen threads on this subject and you wont find any other such problem talk about *ANY* other rifle.

When I pay hard earned $$$$ for a rifle, I expect a good product, one that shoots at least MOA without a lot of fine tuning, and cycles it's rounds without problems, You dont need a rifle in the field with extraction and feeding problems, especially one you pay Kimber prices for.

Kimber has some real problems and they are living on an old rep and a lot of folks are getting big headaches from it. Time to give Kimber a notice to shape up or get out of the business.

Let me know if you want me to do your research for you.

 

[Timberbeast7]

I own two Kimber rifles, an 8400 in 270WSM and an 84M in .22-250. Both easily shoot sub-MOA. Both also function flawlessly. Most horror stories seem to be second hand....."I've got a friend who says....." or "Some guy on an internet forum said.....", not first hand experience....."I've got a Kimber rifle and.....". Drawing such strong conclusions as "shape up or get out of business" and never even have owned a rifle built by Kimber......sounds like some REAL research is in order.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Timberbeast, from me you are getting it secondhand. I have seen a lot of *firsthand* statements from Kimber owners on numerous forums, who say, *I own a Kimber......* I bet if you did a little research you could find a few of these threads and PM, email, or call the owners and get the firsthand info, if you really wanted too.

I have also seen numerous owners like yourself who are very happy with their Kimbers.... but, I also see the others who are not happy. Not everyone will always be happy with their rifle. There will always be someone unhappy with even the best made rifle for whatever reason. But from what I have read, and I am totaly impartial other than what I have read, the Kimbers get way more complaints than any other make of rifle. The complaints are also very consistant about accuracy and extraction and/or feeding problems.

 

[Timberbeast7]

I bet if you did a little research you could find a few of these threads and PM, email, or call the owners and get the firsthand info, if you really wanted too.

Reading internet threads really isn't research. Its a good place to start if you know who you are talking to, but talking to Jim-Bob or Bubba about why they like or don't like something is meaningless....they have no credibility. Read some reviews by credible sources. Most are very positive about the Kimber rifles. Or better yet, buy one or shoot a few on your own.

Are there issues with some Kimber rifles.....probably. Anymore than any other manufacturer....probably not. Do people bitch a lot louder when they are not satisfied with something they paid a little more for.....absolutely.

Would I buy a Kimber Montana......probably not, I think they feel like a boat oar (thats just my opinion). Personally I would look at Sako, they may not be as light (don't know) but I think their syn. stocks feel better.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Reading internet threads really isn't research. Its a good place to start if you know who you are talking to, but talking to Jim-Bob or Bubba about why they like or don't like something is meaningless....they have no credibility. Read some reviews by credible sources. Most are very positive about the Kimber rifles. Or better yet, buy one or shoot a few on your own.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. You can do research on the internet. Take this forum for instance. I don't know any of the members here personally. But after reading numerous posts I can reasonably conclude that there are some very talented gunsmiths here and very knowledgeble and experienced LR shooters. It's true, one should always be cautious and even skeptical about information on the internet or most any source for that matter, but when you start reading the same thing over and over from different sources and see trends, that tells me there is some credibility to it.

I have no desire to buy a Kimber based on what I have read. When I buy a rifle I want reasonable assurance that will work well especially at Kimber prices. I like companies like Cooper and Sako who have excellent QC and test their equipement before sending out and offer an accuracy gurantee. These are the only two companies that I would buy a rifle from for that reason. Other than that I would go with a custom from a good gunsmith.

Are there issues with some Kimber rifles.....probably. Anymore than any other manufacturer....probably not.

My opinion is they do have more problems than other manufacturers based on the fact of how many more complaints I read. Every now and then I read a complaint about a Remmington or Ruger, etc., But I honestly think I have read more complaints about Kimbers than all the other manufacturers combined. That's a trend.

Personally I would look at Sako, they may not be as light (don't know) but I think their syn. stocks feel better.

Sako's are a great rifle, I just got one, a Finnlight 300 WSM. They are 6 3/8 lbs. 8 3/8 lbs now that I have a NF NXS on it. And I have not read or heard one complaint about them.

 

[Timberbeast7]

I respect your opinions, if Kimber has problems I'll beat them up just as much as the next guy....I just haven't seen them yet. And, you are right, this forum is probably one of the few exceptions in terms of excellent information (most of the time) on the internet.

On your Sako, is it an 85 or a 75? How's it shoot?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

My intent isn't to beat up on Kimber. They had an outstanding rep for many years and I hope they get it together and start producing great rifles on a consistant basis and back them with a guarantee. My intention is to bring to light the alleged problems and inconsistencies with their rifles and no one should take my word for it especially since it is second hand. I would hope anyone looking at Kimber would do a lot of research first. I know what a headache a bad rifle can be and I would hate to see someone's hunting season screwed up and them wasting a lot of time, effort and $$$ on trying towork up a load and troubleshoot problems, paying gunsmiths to fix problems, etc. Nothing is greater than a great rifle and nothing is worse than a bad rifle.

My Sako is an 85 and I just got the NF put on it and plan to work up a load here in the next week or two with 180 E-Tips. I'll post the results.