Is the 243 the best whitetail deer cartridge?

[Calvin45]

That's why it's called terminal ballistics instead of terminal energy.

Indeed. Though call it whatever you want there's lots of buzzwords and bs floating around haha. I don't subscribe to any particular "ballistic theory" but for some it's on par with religious conviction that a bullet needs to "dump its energy" and an exit wound means wasted energy, to others who worship at the shrine of retained weight a bullet that comes apart is a bullet that failed even if it killed instantly

 

[epoletna]

.243 vs 257 roberts (especially if factory loaded) is one thing…the .257 weatherby isn't even a sensibly comparable beast to pit against the .243! I have one of each, so for once i just might know what I'm talking abouT

I know that, and knew it when I wrote my comment. My recollection of my friend upgrading to .243 from .257 Roberts was triggered by mention of 25 caliber rifles, not the specific calibers in the post I was responding to.

 

[SSG Graybush]

A little background, my father in law debated me one time, 243 is the best deer cartridge. I said, naw, it's the 30-06. He said no way, the 243 kills them just as dead, sweetest shooting cartridge with no recoil, and very flat and fast.

Shortly after that, I 'd gotten on a lease and bought a 243 as a back up to my trusty 30-06 and for my father in law to use when I took him as my guest. Well guess what? I've come to believe he's right. I've shot deer with calibers up to 375H&H and pistol calibers 45 ACP and 41 magnum and nothing kills deer as quickly as that 243.

Since then I bought a small frame 243 Tikka T3 for my kids to use as their first deer rifle. That gun is a tack driver and kills deer dead right there. It's light, smooth action, relatively inexpensive, sized right for kids and comes with shims to grow with them. My buddy took his youngest of three sons out to hunt his first deer this weekend. Borrowed that 243. One shot, DRT! Loved the gun.

Just more proof in my mind that my father in law was right. The 243 is the best deer cartridge. I don't know what it is, speed? sweet-spot diameter of bullet? Just the right amount of energy? Love to hear others' thoughts and reactions, both pro and

A little background, my father in law debated me one time, 243 is the best deer cartridge. I said, naw, it's the 30-06. He said no way, the 243 kills them just as dead, sweetest shooting cartridge with no recoil, and very flat and fast.

Shortly after that, I 'd gotten on a lease and bought a 243 as a back up to my trusty 30-06 and for my father in law to use when I took him as my guest. Well guess what? I've come to believe he's right. I've shot deer with calibers up to 375H&H and pistol calibers 45 ACP and 41 magnum and nothing kills deer as quickly as that 243.

Since then I bought a small frame 243 Tikka T3 for my kids to use as their first deer rifle. That gun is a tack driver and kills deer dead right there. It's light, smooth action, relatively inexpensive, sized right for kids and comes with shims to grow with them. My buddy took his youngest of three sons out to hunt his first deer this weekend. Borrowed that 243. One shot, DRT! Loved the gun.

Just more proof in my mind that my father in law was right. The 243 is the best deer cartridge. I don't know what it is, speed? sweet-spot diameter of bullet? Just the right amount of energy? Love to hear others' thoughts and reactions, both pro and con!

I thought the 257 Robert's was the "perfect" deer cartridge. And the 243 was the kid and lady caliber. Nowadays a 6.5 Grendel is hard to beat for a kids first deer round, way less recoil then a 243.
But am a believer that the smallest cartridge that will put 1000#'s of energy on target is the best. So to 400-500 yards, maybe.
I just got some 80 gr BD2's from Badlands Precession today for my 243. Never killed a deer with a 243, yet. Once I see the wound channel I might agree it's the best.

 

[memtb]

Indeed. Though call it whatever you want there's lots of buzzwords and bs floating around haha. I don't subscribe to any particular "ballistic theory" but for some it's on par with religious conviction that a bullet needs to "dump its energy" and an exit wound means wasted energy, to others who worship at the shrine of retained weight a bullet that comes apart is a bullet that failed even if it killed instantly

, to others who worship at the shrine of retained weight a bullet that comes apart is a bullet that failed even if it killed instantly

Hey……I resemble that remark!

Though, in my defense, I never said that the fragmenting, non-exiting bullet will "fail to kill"…..only that the bullet failed! "If" the fragmenting bullet and it's pieces and parts reach the vitals….they kill remarkably well! However, if they grenade and "fail" to reach the vitals…..it is a "remarkable" fail!

There is a difference in the two examples! memtb

 

[epoletna]

I think this thread can reach 40 pages if members just pitch in with their own timely thoughts!

 

[gbett308]

While I understand what you are saying and agree with some, the "old" 1,000 ft/lb argument went away years ago. Many of us have killed deer sized game with too many calibers, muzzle loaders and handguns that have far less than 1,000ft/lbs at the muzzle let alone at impact.

Just curious, what range were all these deer sized animals killed at with the 243?

 

[sdakotaguy]

.243 is extremely capable in the right hands, though everyone knows the 30-30 is the best

 

[Calvin45]

Hey……I resemble that remark!

Though, in my defense, I never said that the fragmenting, non-exiting bullet will "fail to kill"…..only that the bullet failed! "If" the fragmenting bullet and it's pieces and parts reach the vitals….they kill remarkably well! However, if they grenade and "fail" to reach the vitals…..it is a "remarkable" fail!

There is a difference in the two examples! memtb

Good point. "Splash wounds" I've heard those called and they are indeed failure

I'm thinking more from the marketing side of things. I love the federal trophy bonded tip and don't plan on using the hornady eld x. But that doesn't mean that federal isn't full of it when they pit the two against each other with the sales pitch being "if a bullet doesn't hold together, it doesn't kill".

Same with the Barnes Berger feud years ago. Both very deadly bullets that operate on very different principles. About the height of nonsense spouted from both manufacturers at each other back in the day

I love my magnums with heavy match bullets or light weight tough bullets moving real fast. That being said the real boring old elephant in the room is medium size softpoints at moderate velocity. They're just not sexy. Or flashy. Or new. Their manufacturers haven't needed to create a problem to necessitate their solution. If I'm being practical (and I hate doing that! ) for 90 percent of my real world hunting all my magnums with fancy bullets probably don't do anything my 8mm mauser with a 196 ppu soft point couldn't do. It penetrates, it loses some weight along the way, it doesn't matter. Most game where and when I grew up was taken by guys using 303 British, .308 Winchester, or .30-06 Springfield with the occasional .270 and .30-30 in the mix, all using the heaviest Winchester power point hardware store ammo available. No fuss. But where's the fun in that? We're a bunch who loves making a fuss!!!

 

[del2les]

Just curious, what range were all these deer sized animals killed at with the 243?

While I was responding to the comment about "1,000 ft/lbs minimum" and its old and false understanding, especially with small calibers, handguns and muzzleloader, I will reply with some experience on 6mm at distance.

I have cleanly taken deer and similar with 243AI, 6mmRem and AI in the 750-800yd range and under.

If killing game were all about "ft/lbs", then how could we kill so many with handguns like the 357 mag with only 550# at the muzzle?

 

[SSG Graybush]

While I was responding to the comment about "1,000 ft/lbs minimum" and its old and false understanding, especially with small calibers, handguns and muzzleloader, I will reply with some experience on 6mm at distance.

I have cleanly taken deer and similar with 243AI, 6mmRem and AI in the 750-800yd range and under.

Well placed broadside shots may not need 1000#'s of energy, but if you need to go through a shoulder. You do. A 45 acp only has ~375#'s of energy at the muzzle. A 223 with a 55 gr vmax will kill a deer bang flop at 400 yards with a well placed shot at about 250 #'s of energy but.... where do you draw the line? I draw it at 1000#'s of energy.

 

[kopcicle]

With few exceptions I place a round between the 4th and 5th rib just behind the trotting shoulder.
With smaller calibers this may actually be tougher than a head shot. If deflected by a rib this can lead to a long day.
My 35 bores go anywhere just behind the shoulder. I do hate turning a shoulder roast into bloodshot sausage.
Hand gunning is different yet. Although we can hunt with the .45ACP here it presents fewer angles and humane kill opportunities. Stalking and good fortune are critical.
45LC, same thing
.357 is a bit borderline as well but terminal ballistics of the semi jacketed truncated cone flat point 125gr are well known. 158gr Keith are also effective.
.41 and 44 are probably the sweet spot for handguns.
Lastly , do not underestimate the wound channel of a ball from a '51 Navy repo.

1,000 ft/lbs ? no not really. Shot placement is everything.

 

[memtb]

With few exceptions I place a round between the 4th and 5th rib just behind the trotting shoulder.
With smaller calibers this may actually be tougher than a head shot. If deflected by a rib this can lead to a long day.
My 35 bores go anywhere just behind the shoulder. I do hate turning a shoulder roast into bloodshot sausage.
Hand gunning is different yet. Although we can hunt with the .45ACP here it presents fewer angles and humane kill opportunities. Stalking and good fortune are critical.
45LC, same thing
.357 is a bit borderline as well but terminal ballistics of the semi jacketed truncated cone flat point 125gr are well known. 158gr Keith are also effective.
.41 and 44 are probably the sweet spot for handguns.
Lastly , do not underestimate the wound channel of a ball from a '51 Navy repo.

1,000 ft/lbs ? no not really. Shot placement is everything.

1,000 ft/lbs ? no not really. Shot placement is everything.

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^ And, a properly placed bullet penetrating to the vitals kills quite nicely……Ft/lbs. energy be d@^^£d! memtb

 

[del2les]

Well placed broadside shots may not need 1000#'s of energy, but if you need to go through a shoulder. You do. A 45 acp only has ~375#'s of energy at the muzzle. A 223 with a 55 gr vmax will kill a deer bang flop at 400 yards with a well placed shot at about 250 #'s of energy but.... where do you draw the line? I draw it at 1000#'s of energy.

Over the decades, I have shot through many deer and similar shoulders with various handgun calibers, and I never "needed" 1,000 ft/lbs to do so. Heck, I have shot completely through elk with cast handgun bullets that impacted with much less.

Strange how all those game animals died from my old 45 ML round balls with only a fraction of the "required" energy.

 

[SSG Graybush]

I don't disagree shot placement is everything. But It's not a perfect world and sometimes that perfect broadside shot isn't possible. Most hunters will take that quartering to shot, especially on a 5 day diy public land out of state hunt. I don't like wasting a shoulder, but it's better then eating a tag. So I gauge my max effective range at 1000#'s of energy.
And hard cast bullets penetrate well so....