Is it possible that the ogive could vary .030" on different lots of Bergers?

[Pdvdh]

I called the number that was in my previous post [HIDDEN] and Steven (Randy's son) answered and said that this was the "office" number and that they are indeed still selling the tool. He also gave me Randy's mobile (?) [HIDDEN] if I wanted to talk to him directly.

Also "as far as he knows" the e-mail is still the same and that was [email protected] (there is an underscore in between the r and reeves which is obscured by the automatic underscoring of a website or e-mail generated by this website).

Also "as far as he knows" the price is still $25.00. Sounded like a young kid and very polite.

Thanks a bunch for your follow-up efforts woods. I was trying to make contact with Randy back in the Fall of 2010. I tried the e-mail a couple times. If I recall, I also tried the phone number. I'll give it another effort soon. It sounds like I'll be able to acquire one of these tools soon.

Paul

 

[Aldon]

Thanks for the clarification Mike!


Woods, Thanks for confirming the contact information.

It is now on the list of Needs

At least this list is growing slower than my list of Wants!!!

 

[Pdvdh]

Gene, you misunderstand the tool's use.
While it is true: "They make the measurement only to OAL", it doesn't matter what OTHER bullet tips might cause & measure.

You make a dummy round to OAL with THE specific bullet you will be using being measured, and then set YOUR standard comparator on it to determine YOUR max OgvOAL(log it) with that specific bullet.

From that point, all reference from & into lands is taken to your max OgvOAL.
The fly in the mix is still ogive radius variance, but that is another tool.

Thanks for this explanation Mikecr. It's been a while since I've read this Thread. I was going to order one of these tools, but then I had to read this Thread again to recall how I would use it.

But in the effort to confirm my understanding: The real value of this tool is that it simplifies the process to determine a true OAL when the bullet is first engaging the lands? Because I can use a case with a somewhat loose neck to bullet fit to establish that OAL measurement with bolt fully closed on the dummy round? And I don't have to worry about the bullet withdrawing from the case neck when extracting the dummy round to take the measurement with my standard comparator? That's always been a pain in the a$z.

I can see how this tool makes that a one-step process, rather than a repeat the process over and over again in order to establish confidence that the measurement taken on the extracted dummy round is indeed a correct measurement.

 

[woods]

The real trick to getting the same measurement everytime is how you insert and hold the bullet on the lands. IOW you need to use the same force everytime. Bullets will hit the lands and then can be pushed with little effort as much as .020" or so further. Now if you do it the same everytime no problem.

I use the R-P in conjunction with the Hornady (Stoney Point) tool since the Hornady tool makes an excellent and easy way to insert and hold the bullet on the lands and easier to gauge the amount of force. If you don't have a Hornady tool then you will have to hold the rifle muzzle down, insert the bullet and hold it there with a pencil or dowel.

Also when you take the measurement on a bullet, you then use that bullet to set the seating depth and then take a comparator measurement from that bullet for checking subsequent bullet seatings. That will minimize variances between the length from the ogive to the meplat between the bullet you measured and other bullets in your loading sequence.

 

[gunner69]

Well, if you manage to get your ~1/2moa gun shooting to actual ~1/4moa, come back and let us know just how much 'off' ended up being.
I know with many guns, that difference could get very costly -for me (Ahab's whale).

Oh ok thanks MikeCR. Im hunting with my rifle not trying to make the US FClass team. So when I said approximately .25 moa at 300 yards, again "approximately", and it was actually .42 moa I didn't realize I would get such a scolding even though unlike most I posed an actual photo of same results. Anyway have a good weekend.

 

[Pdvdh]

The real trick to getting the same measurement everytime is how you insert and hold the bullet on the lands. IOW you need to use the same force everytime. Bullets will hit the lands and then can be pushed with little effort as much as .020" or so further. Now if you do it the same everytime no problem.

I use the R-P in conjunction with the Hornady (Stoney Point) tool since the Hornady tool makes an excellent and easy way to insert and hold the bullet on the lands and easier to gauge the amount of force. If you don't have a Hornady tool then you will have to hold the rifle muzzle down, insert the bullet and hold it there with a pencil or dowel.

Also when you take the measurement on a bullet, you then use that bullet to set the seating depth and then take a comparator measurement from that bullet for checking subsequent bullet seatings. That will minimize variances between the length from the ogive to the meplat between the bullet you measured and other bullets in your loading sequence.

So if I didn't have the Hornady tool in your photos, I could seat a bullet overly long in a neck sized case (dummy round) such that the bullet would be engaging the lands by 0.020" to 0.050" if the bolt were to be closed on that dummy round. Then with the bolt removed, place that dummy round in the chamber and engage the bullet into the lands using a stick or cleaning rod until I feel the resistance of the bullet engaging the rifling. Then I adjust and set the 2nd collar on the R-P tool while the brass end of the R-P tool is in contact with the bullet tip. The distance from this 2nd collar to the 1st collar (which is set with the brass end of the R-P tool against the bolt face with the bolt fully closed) is the OAL of the cartridge such that the bullet is barely touching the lands. Then I seat this bullet in the dummy round to this R-P tool measured OAL. Next measure and record this dummy round with my comparator, for purposes of seating bullets relative to the lands. Correct?

 

[woods]

Correct

It is easy to pick up for a knowledgeable reloader like yourself

 

[Pdvdh]

Correct

It is easy to pick up for a knowledgeable reloader like yourself

Thanks woods. I had this figured out in the Fall of 2010 when I was trying to purchase the R-P tool, but I hadn't been back into this thread since then. Now I understand why I wanted to purchase this tool again, so I'll see if I can get one headed my way in the next week or two.