Newbie here. I just loaded up some 7 WSM, and used Hammer Hunter T 153 with RL23 for the first time over a 3grn range and got up to 3300fps using 67.7grns with the last charge, which I thought was fast based on some published data. I didn't look at the brass until I got home and noticed a progression from no primer cratering, to slight primer cratering, to slight primer cratering with a lite ejector mark at 67.7grns. I got the best group and lowest SD with that last load. Bolt lift seemed fine. I know Pprimer cratering can be caused by a few different things, but the ejector mark concerns me. Is a slight ejector mark (ie, a little shiny spot) ok, or should I back down to preserve the brass and the barrel at this fps? Or should I pay more attention to the primer cratering? I'm calling this 'slightly hot', but I don't really know. Any helpful comments appreciated since I am new to reloading.
Is a slightly 'hot' load OK for the brass and barrel?
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If it's a hunting load and accurate, load up a bunch and store them away. If it's for target I'd back it off some.
Shane Lindsey
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Is this a factory rifle? If so, those signs may be a result of poor maching of the bolt face (burrs on ejector hole, firing pin hole too large). I have a few rifles that do this. They are within published loads, but still show it.
It is still showing pressure signs though. Brass flows the path of least resistance. If bright ejectors show up, defitely back it down.
Load the same 67.7 gr charge again and see how it does. Be sure to get a good feel for how the primer pockets are when you prime again. If soft/easy, then it is a sign it's warm. If the brass remains similar, you are probably ok. If it gets worse, it was too hot to bgein with and you blew the brass out.
For Hammers, Steve has recommended using Nosler load data as it is close.
Put the 100 FPS difference into a calculator and see if it really makes that much difference (no it doesn't).
It is still showing pressure signs though. Brass flows the path of least resistance. If bright ejectors show up, defitely back it down.
Load the same 67.7 gr charge again and see how it does. Be sure to get a good feel for how the primer pockets are when you prime again. If soft/easy, then it is a sign it's warm. If the brass remains similar, you are probably ok. If it gets worse, it was too hot to bgein with and you blew the brass out.
For Hammers, Steve has recommended using Nosler load data as it is close.
Put the 100 FPS difference into a calculator and see if it really makes that much difference (no it doesn't).
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Only concern I would have is if you developed the load on a cooler day and was shooting on a hotter one. I don't know how temp stable RL23 is, but a large enough temp swing might cause the pressure to spike.
I have a similar load that so far has been fine but I will be cautious shooting on a hot summer day.
It could very well be at max but still safe but then warmer outside temps could change that.
I plan to back down charge weight .5 to 1gn then fine tune seating depth to get back to the group size.
If you continue keep checking velocity especially on a hot day.
It could very well be at max but still safe but then warmer outside temps could change that.
I plan to back down charge weight .5 to 1gn then fine tune seating depth to get back to the group size.
If you continue keep checking velocity especially on a hot day.
Calvin45
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This is good information and sound advice. The appearance of the case head is just one part of the puzzle. And as you point out, different tolerances on rifles affect this too. Super tight match chambers with headspace and bolt face and firing hole tolerances all basically at zero may not show any pressure signs at all until your way north of max. By that same token I had a weatherby vanguard in .300 Winnie that showed "pressure signs" with any and all factory ammo fed to it, and both vanguards I've owned seemed to have larger than necessary firing holes that resulted in pretty much all loads appearing to have "cratered" primers even when I knew I was not in any overpressure territory yet. Howa makes the vanguard actions, same thing as a Howa 1500, and interestingly I've talked to other folks with Howa rifles that have observed the same phenomenon. Just a more generous tolerance. Nothing wrong with Howa/vanguard necessarily (lotta bang for your buck with those guns), just something to note!
OP, I should also add that not all brass is equal as I'm sure you know. In my experience federal and Norma brass is very soft and will absolutely show extractor/ejector marks and loosened primer pockets sooner than many others even at under max. Remington, Hornady, Winchester from the last 20 ish years, and PPU are somewhere in the middle. Lapua and Peterson and to a lesser extent old GOOD Winchester brass can be loaded to well over max SAAMI pressure and show absolutely zero pressure indicators (pay attention to bolt lift too obviously). I've heard much the same for ADG and Alpha but have no experience with those and I'm just talking about what I've actually seen with my own eyes.
Something to note. What brass you running?
Calvin45
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Always something to consider. Rl22 was the single most temp sensitive powder I've ever used. Rl23 is purported to be temp stable and specifically the "improved" version of rl22 for that very reason.
Ejector smear on a bolt gun is assuredly over pressure sign. Primer pockets won't last long at all and bigger problems if fired in hotter weather. A stout load just before the primer cratering is acceptable for a hunting load. It's a good thing your rifle shows the progression of pressure signs. Some guns won't.
Howdy, shooting hot loads in new brass will amplify in 1st fired brass with the same load. Always load down for 1 and sometimes after 2 firing. Please keep that in mind if your going to use Hot loads.
I quit running hot loads to me the benefits is not worth it. There is always a good node lower and it dosen't prematurely destroy my brass and gun. IMO
Be safe and have Fun.
I quit running hot loads to me the benefits is not worth it. There is always a good node lower and it dosen't prematurely destroy my brass and gun. IMO
Be safe and have Fun.
It's a custom rifle, Stiller short action. I have seated the bullets to just past 2.91 to have a 0.020 jump (which was a surprise when I measured). I was using new, nickel Winchester brass. Lots of good info here. I appreciate it. I will have to start lower and work up again to see if I can find an accurate load without pressure signs. Will also experiment with other powders when they are available.
Shane Lindsey
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Drop a grain and go up in .3 increments. Probably find you will be around the same velocity with once fired about .3-.5 gr from your virgin cases.
Nickel cases are purdy, but they don't last long like brass.
If you start over find some plain brass, nickle cases arent worth it.
Calvin45
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I can't say I've had bad experiences with nickel like some. If you got it shoot it! Especially with caliber like this with expensive and sometimes hard to find brass.
I agree with comments about the biggest issue being primer pockets. Wsm cases are tough to find these days.
I'd back off .5gr or so if for nothing else to save the pockets.
I loaded to similar signs a few years back with Hornady brass because that's all I could find. Two loads and pockets were useless. I lost 40 pieces of brass and wasn't happy. I backed that load of 1gr the 50fps wasn't worth not having brass.
I'd back off .5gr or so if for nothing else to save the pockets.
I loaded to similar signs a few years back with Hornady brass because that's all I could find. Two loads and pockets were useless. I lost 40 pieces of brass and wasn't happy. I backed that load of 1gr the 50fps wasn't worth not having brass.
