INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

[Broz]

They will serve some guys well.

This is true. We all need something different and these will fit into the mix somewhere.
I read somewhere where someone said "Nosler is going to take the long range market by storm" Well, I think that could be a little bit of a hastey statement propelled by excitment of their favotite bullet maker finally playing catch up inthe LR market.

Jeff

 

[Michael Courtney]

So you're saying the original accubond needs 2200'sec for expansion? That's not what my experience has been.

Please share your experience, along with the specific accubond models, how impact velocity was determined and how expansion was verified.

I'd have to review the available data, but I do not recall ever seeing a convincing test of expansion thresholds for the accubond, but most convincing tests I've seen fail to confirm an expansion threshold as low as claimed by the manufacturer.

To me, gelatin is a more convincing test than anecdotal field observations. A bullet that fails to expand in soft tissue can perform quite well if it happens to hit bone. I've seen bullets expand on rib hits that fail to expand in soft tissue. A bullet that fails to expand in soft tissue can also create a satisfactory wound if it happens to tumble. But tumbling and hitting bone are not nearly as reliable as expansion for ensuring bullet performance. Sure, a sufficient quantity of field observations can establish a reliable expansion limit, but a few shots into gelatin are probably a more accurate predictor of the case where the bullet only hits soft tissue.

 

[Michael Eichele]

The 2 most defining ones for me was the 150 grain AB. One on a deer at 350 yards. Muzzle velocity was 2705 fps. Impact velocity while not verified should have been around 2050.

The other wad a dall sheep at 425. Impact shoul have been 1950.

The bullet was recovered from the deer. No it was not measured but looked textbook.

The bullet from the ram was not recovered but the exit hole was bigger than a US quarter.

Now these were above advertised velocities but well under 2100-2200fps.

The other was a bull moose with the 200 grain AB. 650 yards. Impact predicted at 2000fps. No recovered bullets but again good sized expanded holes on exit.

Again, above published but under 2100-2200.

Almost forgot.... These were all 30 cal.

 

[HoytFlinger]

Once the initial line of ALR bullets is out, they will consider others. I would think the .338 300 gr ALR with a BC of .8 would be in the cards.

JD338

That would be great! I just hope it happens.

 

[shoots_5]

I think in smaller calibers like the 6.5 the 1300 limit threshold will be big.

Scot E.

Couldn't agree more! That lower limit would extend the reliable expansion range in a 260 from 980 yards to about 1240 if you go off the 1600 fps minimum of the Berger's compared to these. Now having said that, the energy is quite low, but I would think it would still be enough for something like an antelope.

 

[Michael Courtney]

The 2 most defining ones for me was the 150 grain AB. One on a deer at 350 yards. Muzzle velocity was 2705 fps. Impact velocity while not verified should have been around 2050.

The other wad a dall sheep at 425. Impact shoul have been 1950.

The bullet was recovered from the deer. No it was not measured but looked textbook.

The bullet from the ram was not recovered but the exit hole was bigger than a US quarter.

Now these were above advertised velocities but well under 2100-2200fps.

The other was a bull moose with the 200 grain AB. 650 yards. Impact predicted at 2000fps. No recovered bullets but again good sized expanded holes on exit.

Again, above published but under 2100-2200.

Almost forgot.... These were all 30 cal.

Thanks for share these experiences. It may be that the Accubonds have an expansion threshold closer to their advertised claims than other bullets.

An impact velocity of 2050 fps on the deer suggests an elevation near 1500 feet. If the elevation was higher, then the impact velocity was likely higher also.

An impact velocity of 1950 on the sheep at 425 yards suggests an elevation near 3000 feet. If the elevation was higher, then the impact velocity was likely higher also.

Of course, if one has actually measured the BC and muzzle velocity in a given rifle and also has the ambient measurements for pressure, humidity, and temperature (from a Kestrel, for example), then one can compute impact velocities more accurately than using published BC numbers and standard conditions at a given altitude. There is much less uncertainty with a chronograph a few feet in front of a block of gelatin.

 

[bigngreen]

I've recovered a 140gr Accubond from a 270wsm after smoking through the lungs of a mule deer buck, impact velocity around 2500fps and I found the bullet in the dirt and it was not opened to the point that the tip was curling around except for the side that hit a rock, basically the tip had just shoved it open but it was to hard to mushroom in the animal. I won't use them under 2200 fps impact velocity.

 

[Scot E]

Couldn't agree more! That lower limit would extend the reliable expansion range in a 260 from 980 yards to about 1240 if you go off the 1600 fps minimum of the Berger's compared to these. Now having said that, the energy is quite low, but I would think it would still be enough for something like an antelope.

Ya, and in my experience the 6.5 140 gr Bergers don't expand well at all at 1600 fps, more like 1900 fps for consistency. Elkaholic had a good thread about his experiences on this as well.

Scot E.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Michael,

What bc and temps are you using to come up with the altitudes you predicted?

I run all of my loads over double chronies and confirm those predicted bc's with drop tests. Yes I use pocket weather stations. No I don't set up chronies in front of the game. I do know that the published bc of the 150 AB is high and the temps were not standard.

The game I hunt does not read lab reports and does not care about my double chronies either. Amax's blowing up in gelatin does sound like a lot more fun than penciling accubonds in there. I a huge fan of the Amax for LR hunting but I know they are also a double edge sword. Take the gel out of the equation, apply hair, hide and big bone and while the is fun in the lab there is no fun in the field.

On the flip side, the AB is its own double edge sword in the opposite direction. I will give you that.

So which is better for LR hunting? It depends on the Person, rifle, load, range and so on. We are just hoping to see this bullet bridge this gap to some degree.

One thing is for sure, until we our hands on them this is all just speculation. Reality most likely rests somewhere between where we hope it is and where you think it is.

Never the less there is excitement about them and for good reason.

 

[Michael Courtney]

We've learned that Trail Boss, Sr4759, and H4895 are useful for testing a wide range of impact velocities in gelatin for .308 bullets in either a .308 or 30-06 test platform. The longer bullets need the faster twist of 1 in 10" in the 30-06 to be stable at the lower velocities. For example, the chart below shows the muzzle velocities of a 200 grain bullet in our 30-06 test rifle for various loads across a wide range of desired impact velocities:

Trail Boss (gr) V (fps)
15 999
16 1137
17 1169
18 1210
19 1146

Sr4759
18 1150
19 1236
20 1307
21 1401
22 1436

H4895
29 1465
31 1540
33 1644
35 1747
37 1890

 

[Michael Courtney]

Michael,

What bc and temps are you using to come up with the altitudes you predicted?

I used the manufacturer's BC and checked the "standard atmosphere at Altitude" button at JBM. Yes, the temperature and humidity come into it, but there's a much bigger change in air density with a few thousand feet change in altitude than with the entire range of humidity or 20 deg F.

I lean toward AMAX because we tend toward cartridges and bullet weights that give 2900 fps. We've never lost an animal or had a long tracking job due to too much expansion in rapidly expanding designs. I have lost animals and had difficult tracking jobs due to insufficient expansion and expansion failures in hollow point and controlled expansion designs. I've also gotten lucky and anchored an animal on the second shot after the first shot penciled through the lungs.

A few years back, we were testing the performance of the 110 VMAX in deer at 3500 fps. It was total fragmentation and about 8-10" of penetration. We recovered all the deer within 100 yards on broadside lung shots. One hypothesis I have regarding claims of overexpansion and failure to reach the vitals on deer sized animals is that the bullet has struck an intermediate object before hitting the animal in these cases. We had several cases of the years of a bullet failing to reach the lungs (apparently blowing up on the shoulder) and in every case, careful investigation revealed the intermediate object struck by the bullet before reaching the shoulder or chest of the deer. It was a small tree or tree branch in most cases, but in one case the shooter managed to hit the deer in spite of shooting through a 2x6 rest in the tree stand!

In 6.5mm and larger, AMAXs at 2900 fps will all give at least 12" of penetration, and many of the higher sectional density bullets go 16-18". Penetration increases with range. This is fine for deer and cow elk, and the higher sectional densities are suitable for bull elk and hogs if the shooter can refrain from bad shot angles. We're also very happy with the accuracy of the AMAX, the shot to shot consistency of BCs, the lot to lot consistency of POI and BC, etc.

Over the years, we've seen Noslers and Bergers have more issues with lot to lot changes in POI, accuracy, and BC. I don't think that hollow point match bullets can ever match the shot to shot BC consistency of plastic tipped bullets. Yes, you can trim the noses for BC consistency, but then the BC is lower, and you've tweaked the expansion characteristics.

 

[CogburnR]

I've recovered a 140gr Accubond from a 270wsm after smoking through the lungs of a mule deer buck, impact velocity around 2500fps and I found the bullet in the dirt and it was not opened to the point that the tip was curling around except for the side that hit a rock, basically the tip had just shoved it open but it was to hard to mushroom in the animal. I won't use them under 2200 fps impact velocity.

X2!

I shot a buck last fall with the 140 accubond out of a 270wsm at about 100 yards. Three shot group in less than 3" through the heart and lungs and no expansion. The exit holes were cleaner than the entrance and no holes bigger than a nickle.

 

[Pdvdh]

Wonder if Hornady has ever considered a bonded AMAX? They may following Nosler's foray into the mix with the ALR line of bullets.

Bullets that shrapnel at high velocity are OK if they do so inside the lung cavity. Turns my stomach when I see the shrapnel in the shoulder, ham, backstrap, or neck meat.

 

[Pdvdh]

X2!

I shot a buck last fall with the 140 accubond out of a 270wsm at about 100 yards. Three shot group in less than 3" through the heart and lungs and no expansion. The exit holes were cleaner than the entrance and no holes bigger than a nickle.

The glass half-full version is you recovered the deer with very little meat loss.

Nickle-sized exit holes probably indicate some expansion. The bullets I've experienced with no expansion have left holes about the same size exiting as they did entering - at least on deer-sized game animals.