Interesting video from TiborasaurusRex

[Mac76]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on some issues and remain friends.

I would love to visit Finland. I made it to Saint Petersburg, Russia but never got to go to Finland on that particular trip. I often order knives & knife making supplies direct from companies in your country.

 

[jbs2014]

Isn't the 2A already dead? What happens if you actually defended yourself against the government?

Illegal searches? Tax collectors? Out of control child protective services?

Sorry guys. The 2A died a very long time ago.

"What happens if you actually defended yourself against the government?"

Asymmetric Warfare.

 

[jbs2014]

Looking at it in an historical perspective is interesting, but not much more. It's from a time when wars was still fought with muzleloades and daggers. It was also a young and fragile democracy at a time when few countries in rest of the world was democratic and Europe was still burning witches and beheading people for blasphemy(not quite true, but close) so I could see its importance at that particular time in history. We can say that US and most other western countries has evolved quite a bit since then.
If the mechanism to prevent a tyrannical government to take over I doubt that a handful of rednecks (sorry the choice of words)with AR-15 or some 700 bolt actions in 300winmag is gonna have much chance against a A-10 opening fire.
On the other hand I don't think more gun control will stop gun related violence. I think we need to be more careful how we talk about other people. If you talk about your enemies or opponents in a certain way you dehumanize them removing respect of there life's in the process.
I grew up with gun control and it has not hurt me one bit and there is guns in almost every house where I live. Actually it's served me well since it prevented me from blowing too much money on guns.
If you ever want to come to Europe then please stop by, I don't think you will dislike it too much

Edit: can't get my hands on some swift 300wm brass, I'm dying to try it so please bring some.

A couple of things


"It was also a young and fragile democracy.." No. It was, and is, a Constitutional Republic. For more on that read Article 4 Section 4.


"We can say that US and most other western countries has evolved quite a bit since then." In some ways yes and in other ways we moved backwards. Such as the ratification of the 17th Amendment (Senators being elected via popular vote as opposed to being appointed by the states)


"If the mechanism to prevent a tyrannical government to take over I doubt that a handful of rednecks (sorry the choice of words)with AR-15 or some 700 bolt actions in 300winmag is gonna have much chance against a A-10 opening fire." I bet planners at all echelons in the Soviet Union thought the same thing during the decision making process to occupy Afghanistan. How did that work out for them? A few things you may want to consider about the "rednecks" that you look down your nose at. For one, do you really think that small arms are the only tools at their disposal? How many of them have military (SF) backgrounds? Do any of them have experience in Cyber Operations? Will that A-10 pilot actually fire on his own citizens? What are the political consequences if he misses (this happens quite a bit) the "rednecks" and hits the daycare center down the street? When making a statement like yours, make sure that it is informed by experience in COIN operations. Finally, never underestimate the effect that one man with skill, determination, and a good rifle can have.

 

[Thescandinavian]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on some issues and remain friends.

I would love to visit Finland. I made it to Saint Petersburg, Russia but never got to go to Finland on that particular trip. I often order knives & knife making supplies direct from companies in your country.

I'm Norwegian but your still welcome.

A couple of things


"It was also a young and fragile democracy.." No. It was, and is, a Constitutional Republic. For more on that read Article 4 Section 4.


"We can say that US and most other western countries has evolved quite a bit since then." In some ways yes and in other ways we moved backwards. Such as the ratification of the 17th Amendment (Senators being elected via popular vote as opposed to being appointed by the states)


"If the mechanism to prevent a tyrannical government to take over I doubt that a handful of rednecks (sorry the choice of words)with AR-15 or some 700 bolt actions in 300winmag is gonna have much chance against a A-10 opening fire." I bet planners at all echelons in the Soviet Union thought the same thing during the decision making process to occupy Afghanistan. How did that work out for them? A few things you may want to consider about the "rednecks" that you look down your nose at. For one, do you really think that small arms are the only tools at their disposal? How many of them have military (SF) backgrounds? Do any of them have experience in Cyber Operations? Will that A-10 pilot actually fire on his own citizens? What are the political consequences if he misses (this happens quite a bit) the "rednecks" and hits the daycare center down the street? When making a statement like yours, make sure that it is informed by experience in COIN operations. Finally, never underestimate the effect that one man with skill, determination, and a good rifle can have.

Using the word redneck was with an teaspoon of humor. I'm absolutely grown up in something that could be considered redneck country. And for firing on your own citizens then the student massacre in Beijing come to mind.

 

[wake.joe]

"What happens if you actually defended yourself against the government?"

Asymmetric Warfare.

More like... Gun owners everywhere will demonize you as a lunatic because you brought attention to gun rights.

 

[Mac76]

I'm Norwegian but your still welcome.


Using the word redneck was with an teaspoon of humor. I'm absolutely grown up in something that could be considered redneck country. And for firing on your own citizens then the student massacre in Beijing come to mind.

I'm Definitely no expert on Finnish people, but from what I understand, Finland has a history even unique among European nations. They were a homogeneous nation, made up of people with very similar backgrounds, habits, and outlook. Finns always got along relatively well with each other. They were 'one big family' so to speak. In such a nation, customs will definitely be different than in more diverse nations. What works 'among family ' probably won't work so well in more diverse nations. This has been changing in Finland in recent years with the immigration of Muslim foreigners. (You May not believe in a god, but they definitely do.) This is a topic that drifts from gun rights, so I won't go further into it here. If interested you may check out
"The Silent Rape Epidemic: How the Finns Were Groomed to Love Their Abusers" by Edward Dutton. Though you're not actually a Finn, but apparently a Norwegian, you may find the book an interesting one about the Finnish people.

 

[Mac76]

In America, the glue binding us is supposed to be the US Constitution and recognition that all men are created equal in the eyes of the Creator with unalienable rights. As Humanity has evolved, more people have been included in this viewpoint than in the past. (After all, even in Europe slavery was practiced among various peoples in the past.) All this philosophy has its roots in Western Civilization- including Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Christianity, and the English Magna Carta, etc. This is an inheritance available for all Humanity, however.

I'll say no more, but ultimately this does strongly impact gun rights.

 

[jbs2014]

I'm Norwegian but your still welcome.


Using the word redneck was with an teaspoon of humor. I'm absolutely grown up in something that could be considered redneck country. And for firing on your own citizens then the student massacre in Beijing come to mind.

The China model is not applicable in this situation. Completely different value system in the US and communist Chinese militaries as well as the civilian populace. But since you mention it, the situation may have occured differently if the students had been armed, trained, and determined. Facing an armed and determined adversary would have impacted the decision cycle of the Chinese military and other government entities. If the (armed) students had the will and logistical support to carry out a long term insurgency, China could have been a very different place today.

 

[Mac76]

Some think (wherever they happen to live) tyranny 'can't happen here'. Well, the greatest killer of people in the 20th Century (not even including combat troops killed in wars) - - was governments. They piled up 262 Million victims.

And if you think "but those were totalitarian states" - you don't think that's what they sold the people on when they first came to power, do you ? Of course, they promised a bright new future for everyone (except those they blamed for the nation's problems.) They always do that. -

https://reason.com/2014/05/15/be-antigovernment-and-proud

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

 

[jbs2014]

Some think (wherever they happen to live) tyranny 'can't happen here'. Well, the greatest killer of people in the 20th Century (not even including combat troops killed in wars) - - was governments. They piled up 262 Million victims.

https://reason.com/2014/05/15/be-antigovernment-and-proud

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

One of the things many democide victims have in common is that they were disarmed first. If you get a chance have a look at "The Black Book of Communism" by Stéphane Courtois, Nicolas Werth and Andrzej Paczkowski. It shows how high the communist body count really was.