Innovative Technologies Collet Die

[Bingoc]

The die instructions result in excessive shoulder headspace for almost all rifles. They bump the shoulder back far enough that the shortest possible chamber will still have enough clearance to chamber a resized piece of brass properly.

Very few rifles have "the shortest possible chamber".

Invest in some gauges, and measure your fired brass from base to shoulder datum. Once you have this number, set up your die too far out, and size a case and measure the same base to shoulder. Often, when the die is far away from correct, the case will actually grow a little. Slowly lower the die 1/16th of a turn at a time, sizing a different case each time, until you achieve 0.0015" -0.0035" reduction from the fired measurement. As you get close, 1/32 of a turn will be all you need to start dialing it in.

Bam. Done. You now have brass that will chamber nicely, but won't grow excessively when fired. There's some theories that suggest it will be more accurate too.

Like Baby Bear's soup. Not to loose, but not too tight.

Thanks, will try this.

 

[Bingoc]

I have the collet die on my bench and have used it on previous factory chambered belted magnums, but not so much on my current 7STW and 7RM customs cut with tighter reamer specs.

The collet dies are excellent on when using on belted mags that are cut with loose chambers and are run at higher pressures. The brass can expand to the point where standard FL dies can not resize the lower portion of the case, because of length of die & the beveled base. The collet die will resize to the belt.

That said, I believe the OPs problem with early case head separation is more likely the result of excessive shoulder bump on each firing. I would find exactly what my base to datum length was in each of my chambers and bump no more than .002". I would also resize to the belt with the collet die, if I was getting expansion in that area.

I would suggest the OP do some measuring on each step from new brass to fired brass, circumferences, BTD length and OAL length. Also to cut open some cases to check if there is potential for case separation.

I like your suggestions and will pursue. I have cut many cases and the frost line that I speak of is a crack in the interior of the brass.

 

[Bingoc]

I have the lw die also
bought it to resize 1x fired 7rm brass from another rifle as when I tried to fl size it, fl die was plowing brass back towards the belt and creating a raised ridge so it wouldn't chamber--- for my situation I had to use the lw die to size the body first, then the fl die

Thanks for the heads up. When the brass had flowed toward the belt, were you able to remove the brass without damaging the die?

 

[Bingoc]

I have only thought about buying one of those, but not gotten around it.
When I first started reading I thought OMFG now someone will post that video of that guy shouting about he's passionate hate for necksizing.
Some do it, some don't and I tried both and have failed at both. Simply because I have English reloading manuals without being a native speaker. Do what works for you and don't follow advice from someone that needs to shout to make he's message come trough.

I like your perspective on people. There are all kinds; and as I was told a kid, when you meet someone, you are never looking in the mirror and believe 2% of what you read and hear and 10% of what you see.

 

[Bingoc]

I purchased a Willis Collet die during the great brass depression of 20??. When you can't get brass and need to use stuff that has been loaded a few times it is a very valuable tool in my opinion, and it'll pay for itself pretty quickly. It does add a couple steps to the reloading process but for a hunter it is well worth the time.

But did it work and what was the process that you used?

 

[cohunt]

Thanks for the heads up. When the brass had flowed toward the belt, were you able to remove the brass without damaging the die?

the die wasnt damaged, nore did it have any brass inside-- a standard fl resize die was pushing a brass ring back towards the belt-- thus it would make a small ridge of brass on the case just before the belt that was prohibiting the bolt from closing on the sized brass--in effect what was going on was that the 1x fire brass was not from my rifle and probably had a max saami or slightly over size chamber--If I used the LW die after my FL die it still had a small ridge (enough to catch your fingernail on)-- but when I tried the lw die first-- it squeezes the whole body of the brass down first--including right above the belt, back to saami minimum dimensions-- then I would use my fl die to bump the shoulder back .001 and size the neck--it was much easier to size the brass with my fl die after I used the lw die---his die "squeezes" the brass back down using a split collet so it does not have the tendency to push/plow brass like a normal FL die does

since I used the lw die on the 1x fired brass, I have not had that issue since-- but I'm pretty sure it was due to the 1x fired rifle's slightly over-sized chamber--it was a way for me to buy 7rm Norma brass for .35c each to save some money-- but then had to buy the lw die to fix the brass-- I saved a little, but not as much as i originally thought I would, but now I have the lw die if i ever need it again, so i guess it was a good trade off in the end--thats part of reloading, dont count your costs you might be surprised how little $ you actually save--but you have high quality/accurate ammo when done

 

[AllenJ]

But did it work and what was the process that you used?

Yes, it worked as advertised. The process I use is to FL size all my brass, tumble it, then measure the area just ahead of the belt using the LW Collet Die. The top of the die does this, you just drop the case in it. If the case drops in all the way to the belt it is good, if not you need to use the die to resize it. To resize you need to re-lube your brass with a wax or spray type lube (per their instructions don't use liquid lube like RCBS Case Lube), put the collet on the brass and run it up into the die on your press.

 

[Bingoc]

the die wasnt damaged, nore did it have any brass inside-- a standard fl resize die was pushing a brass ring back towards the belt-- thus it would make a small ridge of brass on the case just before the belt that was prohibiting the bolt from closing on the sized brass--in effect what was going on was that the 1x fire brass was not from my rifle and probably had a max saami or slightly over size chamber--If I used the LW die after my FL die it still had a small ridge (enough to catch your fingernail on)-- but when I tried the lw die first-- it squeezes the whole body of the brass down first--including right above the belt, back to saami minimum dimensions-- then I would use my fl die to bump the shoulder back .001 and size the neck--it was much easier to size the brass with my fl die after I used the lw die---his die "squeezes" the brass back down using a split collet so it does not have the tendency to push/plow brass like a normal FL die does

since I used the lw die on the 1x fired brass, I have not had that issue since-- but I'm pretty sure it was due to the 1x fired rifle's slightly over-sized chamber--it was a way for me to buy 7rm Norma brass for .35c each to save some money-- but then had to buy the lw die to fix the brass-- I saved a little, but not as much as i originally thought I would, but now I have the lw die if i ever need it again, so i guess it was a good trade off in the end--thats part of reloading, dont count your costs you might be surprised how little $ you actually save--but you have high quality/accurate ammo when done

Thanks this all helps a lot.

 

[Bingoc]

Yes, it worked as advertised. The process I use is to FL size all my brass, tumble it, then measure the area just ahead of the belt using the LW Collet Die. The top of the die does this, you just drop the case in it. If the case drops in all the way to the belt it is good, if not you need to use the die to resize it. To resize you need to re-lube your brass with a wax or spray type lube (per their instructions don't use liquid lube like RCBS Case Lube), put the collet on the brass and run it up into the die on your press.

Thanks this is what I was looking for.

 

[Tank308]

Thanks this is what I was looking for.

I resize my 264 brass with Redding fl die. That brings the base above the belt back about .0015. Then the innovative collet die will bring it in another .0015. I use Norma brass. The Winchester brass has a thicker base and is harder to bring in. But it does. Just have to use more elbow grease. never had separation.

 

[5gauss]

Some background: I have been primarily a hunter for about 55 years and therefore haven't spent a lot of time shooting paper. I find a load that gives me the performance that I need and use it year in and year out. So my guns do not have a lot of rounds through them. But I have reloaded for as long as I can remember, and as a hunter have full length resized my brass using the guidance from the die manufacturer. Needless to say I have experienced case separation especially on the magnum calibers i.e., 264 WM, 300 Wea. 338 WM, and 375 H&H. The brass grows routinely 0.007 to 0.008 in. per shooting. I trim it back and start over again. Routinely after 3 reloads it forms a crystalline ring about 0.25 in. above the belt, and I discard it as I can't depend on it. I primarily hunt alone where my best friend is my pack frame and cotton alfalfa seed bag and don't need any case separations.

I have read from the forums how many of you neck size to extend the life of the brass and gain better accuracy. I have tried it on the 300 Wea brass, and they still do not chamber very easily. So I think that I need some tutoring to get it right. But in the meantime, I have also heard that a company called Innovative Technologies has a Collet Die especially made for the above mentioned magnum calibers. From what I gather it is to be used after the case is full length sized. I think that this die reduces the expanded case to its original size all the way down to the top of the belt. This supposedly allows the case to be used for many more than three reloads. I would think that this process work-hardens the brass, and one would still get early failures.

My question is: Have any of you had any experience with this Collet Die, and what were the results, and would you recommend it?

Thanks for your time

I have used this die with good success. Best to use it from the beginning as it cannot always "fix" brass that has been stretched too far. I have even saved new brass that would not chamber. Use it as directed and I recommend it...

 

[Chase723]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I used to have a similar issue. Initially, I thought maybe my brass had grown to the point it needed to be trimmed. I measured my cases and they were all within spec. So then I thought maybe my shoulders weren't being set back appropriately and that was the case. I previously had set the dies up according to the manufacturers suggestion, but I use a progressive press and there's a little play when the die contacts the shell holder/carrier unlike a single stage press and made setting it up according to the instructions incorrect.

I then watched this video and voila problem solved.



This is what I do now and full length resize every time. I also anneal every firing. Knock on wood I've yet to split a neck and never had a case head separation. Ammo loads and ejects smoothly.

 

[Bingoc]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I used to have a similar issue. Initially, I thought maybe my brass had grown to the point it needed to be trimmed. I measured my cases and they were all within spec. So then I thought maybe my shoulders weren't being set back appropriately and that was the case. I previously had set the dies up according to the manufacturers suggestion, but I use a progressive press and there's a little play when the die contacts the shell holder/carrier unlike a single stage press and made setting it up according to the instructions incorrect.

I then watched this video and voila problem solved.



This is what I do now and full length resize every time. I also anneal every firing. Knock on wood I've yet to split a neck and never had a case head separation. Ammo loads and ejects smoothly.

Thanks, you hit the nail on the head. I use a Rockchecker press and RCBS dies. I set the press up so that the die contacts the shell holder with a little pressure. This allows the brass to be easiy chambered, but it seems like the shoulder is set tooo far back. From the video it looks like that I need a set of the Redding shell holders that push the brass further into the die. But intuitively it seems that the more that the brass is pushed into the die, the more the shoulder is set back allowing the brass to grow more. What am I missing?
Thanks,

 

[entoptics]

Thanks, you hit the nail on the head. I use a Rockchecker press and RCBS dies. I set the press up so that the die contacts the shell holder with a little pressure. This allows the brass to be easiy chambered, but it seems like the shoulder is set tooo far back. From the video it looks like that I need a set of the Redding shell holders that push the brass further into the die. But intuitively it seems that the more that the brass is pushed into the die, the more the shoulder is set back allowing the brass to grow more. What am I missing?
Thanks,

The Redding Holders decrease headspace by increasing the thickness. In other words they are thicker than a standard holder by the advertised increments. The die touches the holder sooner, therefore it's not set as deep.

You don't need the Redding holders, but they do make it convenient. You can accomplish the same thing by trial and error as mentioned in my first post in this thread. You can also use feeler gauges to setup quickly if you're willing to sacrifice a piece of brass.

Set the die to touch the holder, size a piece of brass, measure the difference between it and a fired piece of brass, subtract 0.002" (give or take a thousandth if you prefer slightly tighter or slightly looser), then get a feeler gauge of that thickness, lay it on top of the shell holder, raise the ram, tighten the die down to touch the feeler gauge, and you should be darn close.

For example:
Fired case measures 2.008" to datum.
Case sized with die touching holder measures 2.000" to datum.
2.008 - 2.000 = 0.008 headspace.

So if you want 0.002 headspace, then 0.008 - 0.002 = 0.006 feeler gauge.

Hope that makes sense.