Improving the 308 Win performance

[Wachsmann]

Got more rounds loaded up with 195Ms and at 48 grains I started seeing/feeling signs of compression. I loaded up to 49.1 grains and originally having the die set to seat the bullet at 2.830 it now has seated everything from 48 grains further out with the 49.1 grain charge at 2.835. So for me I probably won't go any higher than the 49.1 charge weight for testing. I suspect in this loading I should find max pressure. These are all hornady brass with probably about 3 to 4 case firing's on them already. Probably won't be able to shoot till next week though. Heading back to work after week of vacation.

 

[nralifer]

Got more rounds loaded up with 195Ms and at 48 grains I started seeing/feeling signs of compression. I loaded up to 49.1 grains and originally having the die set to seat the bullet at 2.830 it now has seated everything from 48 grains further out with the 49.1 grain charge at 2.835. So for me I probably won't go any higher than the 49.1 charge weight. I suspect in this loading I should find max pressure. These are all hornady brass with probably about 3 to 4 case firing's on them already. Probably won't be able to shoot till next week though. Heading back to work after week of vacation.

49.1 gr is a pretty stout charge for a 195 gr bullet and it's encouraging that you are not seeing clear signs of pressure. I think you are wise to stop there. What speeds are you seeing at 49.1 gr LVR?

 

[sea2summit]

The newest tech is Badlands. In the 170-180 gr class they have the best BC and penetration. I have two 300WSMs both will shoot the 175 BD2 at 3150 to 3200 fps or the 150 BD2 at 3450- 3500 fps if speed turns you on. Your shots on those Deer were good. The placement looks like it saved you some meat.

I'm sorry but the off the wall claims and marketing weirdness of this thread have ensured I'll never use a Badlands bullet.

 

[6fatrat]

We shoot 308's with 155gr bullets in fullbore competition.
With 30-32 inch barrels and a longer throat 3050-3100 fps is as fast as you can safely shoot them.
Steve Bair

 

[bamban]

We shoot 308's with 155gr bullets in fullbore competition.
With 30-32 inch barrels and a longer throat 3050-3100 fps is as fast as you can safely shoot them.
Steve Bair

Steve, which reamer is being used the Palma team now?

Nez Rongero

 

[Wachsmann]

49.1 gr is a pretty stout charge for a 195 gr bullet and it's encouraging that you are not seeing clear signs of pressure. I think you are wise to stop there. What speeds are you seeing at 49.1 gr LVR?

I haven't tested them yet as I mentioned above. I probably test next Monday or Tuesday. I am well aware of the stout charge. I'm at 45.6 grains as posted earlier and no pressure. As I stated above I'm testing, trying to find pressure and record data. I do t have any way to measure pressure scientifically with what the bullet/gunpowder makers do but thing like ejector swipes, flatten primers, or bolt lift with bolt lift being the worse, well worse is case separation, been there once on an over used peace of brass, but this is the only way layman's have to measure case pressure when loading non data powders. Also I don't like compressed loads. Just doesn't strike me as a good load practice. Also as stated I hope I will find pressure in this load work up when I go testing next time. Right now the flat spot that I seen yesterday was probably a good wide node on my barrel. They grouped well for a load that was increasing in charge weight. The top 3 charges I shot the other day was was like 1fps apart. The top 4 charges were 11fps apart and this was 1 whole grain difference in the powder charges. So for consistency my gut tells me that may be the charge to shoot but the tinkering side of me wants to max it out to she where the max charge is.

 

[Dean2]

I haven't tested them yet as I mentioned above. I probably test next Monday or Tuesday. I am well aware of the stout charge. I'm at 45.6 grains as posted earlier and no pressure. As I stated above I'm testing, trying to find pressure and record data. I do t have any way to measure pressure scientifically with what the bullet/gunpowder makers do but thing like ejector swipes, flatten primers, or bolt lift with bolt lift being the worse, well worse is case separation, been there once on an over used peace of brass, but this is the only way layman's have to measure case pressure when loading non data powders. Also I don't like compressed loads. Just doesn't strike me as a good load practice. Also as stated I hope I will find pressure in this load work up when I go testing next time. Right now the flat spot that I seen yesterday was probably a good wide node on my barrel. They grouped well for a load that was increasing in charge weight. The top 3 charges I shot the other day was was like 1fps apart. The top 4 charges were 11fps apart and this was 1 whole grain difference in the powder charges. So for consistency my gut tells me that may be the charge to shoot but the tinkering side of me wants to max it out to she where the max charge is.

When you are adding powder and the velocity isn't increasing, STOP adding powder. When you hit max published velocities STOP adding powder, even if you are below published charge weights. Pressure equals velocity. You are not getting much more speed than published loads at published pressures without pushing higher pressures. Velocity flattening with added powder is a classic over pressure sign. By the time you get hard bolt lift, opened primer pockets or case head or web expansion you are WAY past 60,000 PSI.

When did it become De rigueure to shoot Proof Load pressure levels as regular fodder.

 

[fordy]

I'm sorry but the off the wall claims and marketing weirdness of this thread have ensured I'll never use a Badlands bullet.

Gday sea2summit
I always like to give the benefit of the doubt as some terminal data I may have missed as I can't keep up with all the new stuff today so I rely on reputable sources to see if anyone has a edge over another in the fields I look for
What I've seen over the years is the ones that are on song will back their statements with facts & the white noise will eventually fade
So let's see how this pans out with a reply to you as everyone should have a chance to prove their statements are factual especially when questioned

Jm2cw

Cheers

 

[Wachsmann]

When you are adding powder and the velocity isn't increasing, STOP adding powder. When you hit max published velocities STOP adding powder, even if you are below published charge weights. Pressure equals velocity. You are not getting much more speed than published loads at published pressures without pushing higher pressures. Velocity flattening with added powder is a classic over pressure sign. By the time you get hard bolt lift, opened primer pockets or case head or web expansion you are WAY past 60,000 PSI.

When did it become De rigueure to shoot Proof Load pressure levels as regular fodder.

I was going to reply to this but I really don't need to. I guess my reloading method and finding pressure is so far out of line of what the average reloaded does Its just completely misleading. Try and find Book published data on the powder in discussion for a 308 Win.

 

[Dean2]

I was going to reply to this but I really don't need to. I guess my reloading method and finding pressure is so far out of line of what the average reloaded does Its just completely misleading. Try and find Book published data on the powder in discussion for a 308 Win.

Only you think you are a savant and have invented new ground. I started wildcatting rounds when P.O. Ackley was still a relatively young man.

Have you ever heard of Quickload? Run your velocity adjusted loads through it and tell me what pressures it is spitting out. On top of that, the other signs of high pressure, like velocity plateauing despite adding more powder, is a universal sign of pressure. Do what you want, they are your guns and body parts but I sure hope no one else follows your example.

 

[6fatrat]

Steve, which reamer is being used the Palma team now?

Nez Rongero

Nez
I am on the veterans team, the actual chamber is left up to the individual.
I will let you know if i get some info on the u-25 and the main team.
Steve

 

[bamban]

Nez
I am on the veterans team, the actual chamber is left up to the individual.
I will let you know if i get some info on the u-25 and the main team.
Steve

Steve,

Two guys on the TX Service Rifle Team wanted to get into Palma. The only reamers I have in house to loan them are the dated Bisley, Obermeyer, and and FTR. They wanted to start using the 155.5 right away, might as well get the reamer tailored for those. I reached out to Alan W, he suggested 0.080, 0.3085 freebore, 342-343 neck, 1-30 leade, if I were to have one ground. Looking to compare what the team reamer is now.

Thanks, bud.

Nez

 

[Wachsmann]

Only you think you are a savant and have invented new ground. I started wildcatting rounds when P.O. Ackley was still a relatively young man.

Have you ever heard of Quickload? Run your velocity adjusted loads through it and tell me what pressures it is spitting out. On top of that, the other signs of high pressure, like velocity plateauing despite adding more powder, is a universal sign of pressure. Do what you want, they are your guns and body parts but I sure hope no one else follows your example.

I figured this would go this way with my reply and your response. I will politely not rebuttal back to you comment. Everyone else if interested I will try and shoot what I have loaded up next week and give a report and pictures of brass. Everyone for the sake of reloading this is my data from my 308 chamber. None 2 are alike is what I'm always told. I'll try and do higher resolution pics cause I looked at the ones I did and they are not the best. Thanks

I'm sorry but the clams about PO Ackley. He born in 1903.

 

[nralifer]

I haven't tested them yet as I mentioned above. I probably test next Monday or Tuesday. I am well aware of the stout charge. I'm at 45.6 grains as posted earlier and no pressure. As I stated above I'm testing, trying to find pressure and record data. I do t have any way to measure pressure scientifically with what the bullet/gunpowder makers do but thing like ejector swipes, flatten primers, or bolt lift with bolt lift being the worse, well worse is case separation, been there once on an over used peace of brass, but this is the only way layman's have to measure case pressure when loading non data powders. Also I don't like compressed loads. Just doesn't strike me as a good load practice. Also as stated I hope I will find pressure in this load work up when I go testing next time. Right now the flat spot that I seen yesterday was probably a good wide node on my barrel. They grouped well for a load that was increasing in charge weight. The top 3 charges I shot the other day was was like 1fps apart. The top 4 charges were 11fps apart and this was 1 whole grain difference in the powder charges. So for consistency my gut tells me that may be the charge to shoot but the tinkering side of me wants to max it out to she where the max charge is.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Thought you had shot them at 49.1 gr. You probably will start to see some primer flattening at 46.5-47 gr using LVR. If you do stop there. A sensitive way to tell is to do a side by side focussed photo of a primed unfired case next to a fired one and compare the primer radius. Oblique lighting also with magnification will help show slight ejector marks or swipes. If you see either I would not go further and back off about 0.5-1 gr. and call it good.

We shoot 308's with 155gr bullets in fullbore competition.
With 30-32 inch barrels and a longer throat 3050-3100 fps is as fast as you can safely shoot them.
Steve Bair

What powder do you use to get those speeds?