Improving the 308 Win performance

[bamban]

Yours is a really interesting load shooting that heavy a bullet from a 20" barrel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are kissing the lands that means your throat is a bit on the long side with a COAL of 3". What other powders have you tried using that rifle, bullet and brass? My Savage chamber to hit the lands is 3.04" using the 175 BD2 bullet (1.535" long).

The thread is not mine.

My 308s are mostly gas guns, except for the 16-1/2 R700 that I run suppressed, no reloads, just M852s, or M118 LRs for hogs.

The double lugged purpose built M14 type that I shot at 1000 yard matches, I started running the 168 Hybrids when they came out, COL at 2.9. With 2000 MR and the old Remington UBR brass, small rifle magnum primers or CCI 41, velocity was right at 2800. Can't get there with GI brass, the UBR brass have the largest water capacity of all brass I tested.

 

[nralifer]

The thread is not mine.

My 308s are mostly gas guns, except for the 16-1/2 R700 that I run suppressed, no reloads, just M852s, or M118 LRs for hogs.

The double lugged purpose built M14 type that I shot at 1000 yard matches, I started running the 168 Hybrids when they came out, COL at 2.9. With 2000 MR and the old Remington UBR brass, small rifle magnum primers or CCI 41, velocity was right at 2800. Can't get there with GI brass, the UBR brass have the largest water capacity of all brass I tested.

Thanks for the info. What limited you with the military brass? Did you try your SRP brass in a bolt gun?

 

[bamban]

Thanks for the info. What limited you with the military brass? Did you try your SRP brass in a bolt gun?

Military brass water capacity. I did use a ton of GI brass for the across the course 200, 300, and 600 yard matches in McCoy M1 and M14 types.

Have not shot the UBR brass in a long barreled 308, I sold my last 1000 count case of Remington SRP brass to a friend when he started shooting Palma.

 

[nralifer]

I run a hot load in my 308 Winchester. I haven't tried, (because of having an abundance of) any other 175gr but the SMK. I run this load in cold weather. Lapua brass, CCI large primer, Hodgdon CFE223 powder 46.0gr. (Do not try this load without working up from minimum load. This powder SPIKES QUICKLY.) at 2.800 C.O.A.L.. Chronographed at 2832 fps. average at 10ft. In the heat of summer I run 45.5gr CFE223. Both loads have light flattening of primer. With all that said, it would be interesting trying the 150gr And 175gr Badlands. A Berger 168gr Hybrid load with 46.6gr CFE223 chronographed 2850. C.O.A.L. 2.870 Lapua brass lit with Large CCI primers. I have brass loaded with the first 175gr Matchking with 12 loadings. Of course I worked and kept it clean etc. I'm no professional and read these threads to get all the knowledge I can. If someone needs help I try to give the best helpful, honest advice I can. I load for a 6.5 creedmoor also. 140gr ELDM at 2835 fps average with different components. This load has well rounded primers with no problems over a few years. I love my .308 but the little 6.5 creed, (mentioned earlier in this thread) has thoroughly impressed a guy who just bucked against it for a few years. Recoil is tough for me as I'm pretty busted up making the 6.5 great for my needs in my area.

I really appreciate you taking the time to make such a detailed post. I would be crazy interested in how your Berger 168 gr hybrids do using the CFE223 in a small rifle primer brass. I think the increased speeds I see is because the SRP pockets and primers tolerate more pressure before they enlarge and flatten. The data you have will be a perfect comparison to any SRP brass data using CFE 223

 

[bamban]

CFE223 and 2000 MR are kissing cousins, burn rate wise.

Yes, the SRP can tolerate higher pressure and much longer before they loosen. The Lapua Palma SRP and CFE223 would serve good test components for you.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I really appreciate you taking the time to make such a detailed post. I would be crazy interested in how your Berger 168 gr hybrids do using the CFE223 in a small rifle primer brass. I think the increased speeds I see is because the SRP pockets and primers tolerate more pressure before they enlarge and flatten. The data you have will be a perfect comparison to any SRP brass data using CFE 223

I have had interest in small primer brass recently. It is just finding it in stock has been a hard task. If I can get some, ( preferably Lapua as to the large primer brass being Lapua ) I would be happy to post the results. If the results reflect my findings with the 6.5 cm it will be a positive outcome.

 

[nralifer]

I run a hot load in my 308 Winchester. I haven't tried, (because of having an abundance of) any other 175gr but the SMK. I run this load in cold weather. Lapua brass, CCI large primer, Hodgdon CFE223 powder 46.0gr. (Do not try this load without working up from minimum load. This powder SPIKES QUICKLY.) at 2.800 C.O.A.L.. Chronographed at 2832 fps. average at 10ft. In the heat of summer I run 45.5gr CFE223. Both loads have light flattening of primer. With all that said, it would be interesting trying the 150gr And 175gr Badlands. A Berger 168gr Hybrid load with 46.6gr CFE223 chronographed 2850. C.O.A.L. 2.870 Lapua brass lit with Large CCI primers. I have brass loaded with the first 175gr Matchking with 12 loadings. Of course I worked and kept it clean etc. I'm no professional and read these threads to get all the knowledge I can. If someone needs help I try to give the best helpful, honest advice I can. I load for a 6.5 creedmoor also. 140gr ELDM at 2835 fps average with different components. This load has well rounded primers with no problems over a few years. I love my .308 but the little 6.5 creed, (mentioned earlier in this thread) has thoroughly impressed a guy who just bucked against it for a few years. Recoil is tough for me as I'm pretty busted up making the 6.5 great for my needs in my area.

Thank very much for the info on the CFE223 pressuring up quickly. That's important info for those using it, I was not aware it would do that. So far on this thread we have found some interesting info about the 308Win. Your observation is quite important. The other is that there is a significant variability in throat lengths which could significantly affect attainable MV. Long throats favor the use of seating bullets out longer which allows for more powder capacity, longer jumps to the rifling which can lower peak pressure or at max peak pressure allow a larger powder charge at that pressure and thus greater average pressure during bullet acceleration down the barrel. Also, indications that SRP brass will allow higher powder charges and better speed because the smaller diameter primer pocket is less prone to enlarge. Finally, we have seen some favorable comments about Leverevolution powder from other guys adventurous to use it in the 308Win when there is no published data on it's use in the 308Win. We need more carefully thought out posts like yours. Lets keep the good stuff coming.

 

[Wachsmann]

I also have a 6.5 creed model I think it's a 112 savage heavy barrel 26 inch 1/8 twist. It will shoot the 140 and the 130 stuff really well. The Berger loaded mission ready ammo is really good in it both 130 and 140 I've taken out to 1000 yards on steel. I want to try some ABLR with RL 26. I have a few loaded but that was the last of my RL26 so I'll shoot for data but will have to develop a load with something else for as powder with them. Could just hit the easy button and use H4350 but speed will be down. I wish I new what they run in the Berger ammo cause they seem to shoot at some descent speed already.

 

[436]

Put the .30 cal aka .308 bullet into the 277 Fury case with higher pressure giving it higher performance with bullet weights of 110gr to 190gr Just a thought. Cheers

 

[bamban]

Put the .30 cal aka .308 bullet into the 270 Fury case with higher pressure giving it higher performance with bullet weights of 110gr to 190gr Just a thought. Cheers

Thank you for the reminder.

I might expand some of these to 30 cal. I have the 277 Fury reamer already, but I am a 30 cal guy at heart. I have Intel from the retired benchrest gunsmith who chambered SIG test barrels on what to do with R700 to handle the 80K pressure and what powder to use. Think BD2 150 grain running 80K psi through 26-28 inch barrel. A real 600 yard Elk cartridge in a SA standard bolt face.

 

[436]

Thank you for the reminder.

I might expand some of these to 30 cal. I have the 277 Fury reamer already, but I am a 30 cal guy at heart. I have Intel from the retired benchrest gunsmith who chambered SIG test barrels on what to do with R700 to handle the 80K pressure and what powder to use. Think BD2 150 grain running 80K psi through 26-28 inch barrel. A real 600 yard Elk cartridge in a SA standard bolt face.

View attachment 423715View attachment 423716

Great, that sounds like a super concept to start on, love to hear how it comes out, keep us in the loop. Good luck, Cheers

 

[nralifer]

Put the .30 cal aka .308 bullet into the 277 Fury case with higher pressure giving it higher performance with bullet weights of 110gr to 190gr Just a thought. Cheers

Interesting thought. Nothing like 80K psi to get things really moving Wonder if you need special primers? If not kidding. Never thought about it before.

 

[436]

Interesting thought. Nothing like 80K psi to get things really moving Wonder if you need special primers?

Good question, I don't know, I would think it would be something like a CCI #34 0r #41 type primer. Cheers

 

[nralifer]

You want improved performance, but refuse to wildcat it?

All projectiles are governed by the laws of physics. Drag and energy specifically.

If it can be done with a 308, it has already been done. The parameters for increased performance are quite well defined.

Then why don't you share them with us. It's the sort of information this thread is looking for.