I'd like your opinion
- Thread starter copper still
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Justice1327
Well-Known Member
I agree he needs to use a different bullet… But the very first sentence he says he is developing a target load not a hunting load
Brendan,
If your goal is to use the same bullet weight for your practice and hunting rounds, the bullet below is the only one I know designed for precisely that. The terminal match is a lead core, and the terminal shock is copper (https://drtammo.com/faq-page/). This is a frangible bullet that works like a Berger.
Nathan Foster, one of the best in the business, tested it afield.
Good luck!
Ed
I practice with what I intend to use for whatever I'm shooting at be it paper or game. What are you practicing or learning from one bullet with a 10 " group at 500. When you change the bullet to your hunting load.... everything changes again. If you can't afford to practice with the 308... practice with something else. Otherwise you're just practicing pulling the trigger. Just me!
copper still
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for their help and time.
I'm going to look for a different bullet that will be better for my needs.
I've had fine results with ELD-M in my 6.5 CM for target shooting so I'm thinking I'll start there.
I'm going to look for a different bullet that will be better for my needs.
I've had fine results with ELD-M in my 6.5 CM for target shooting so I'm thinking I'll start there.
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
I have some doubts about FMJ bullets having open bases (lead core needs to be stuffed into jacket front or back) for fyne accuracy.
A good relatively cheap bullet is the 168 Hornady HpBt for 10-12 twist .308 Win rifles. Velocities in the 2550 fps range with a 16 inch barrel should produce slightly more than .5 second TOF at 440. OPM sez not for hunting.
Decades ago when I was real young I shot 1,000's of 168 Hornady hp match bullets at 600 in NRA matches & did real good. A brief excursion into FMJ bullets was disappointing and no wins at my expert rating. My loads with the 168 H hpbt at 2600 fps had a TOF just short of 1 second at 600 yards. Expect a TOF more than 1 second with a 16 inch barrel velocities at 600.
Going to a 155 grain .308 bullet might be a good move. Hornady makes a nice 155 ELDM and makes a less expensive but nice 155 hpbt.
Palma shooters get nice results at 900 yards with various 155 grain bullets at/about 2900 fps MV's out of real long barrels.
A good relatively cheap bullet is the 168 Hornady HpBt for 10-12 twist .308 Win rifles. Velocities in the 2550 fps range with a 16 inch barrel should produce slightly more than .5 second TOF at 440. OPM sez not for hunting.
Decades ago when I was real young I shot 1,000's of 168 Hornady hp match bullets at 600 in NRA matches & did real good. A brief excursion into FMJ bullets was disappointing and no wins at my expert rating. My loads with the 168 H hpbt at 2600 fps had a TOF just short of 1 second at 600 yards. Expect a TOF more than 1 second with a 16 inch barrel velocities at 600.
Going to a 155 grain .308 bullet might be a good move. Hornady makes a nice 155 ELDM and makes a less expensive but nice 155 hpbt.
Palma shooters get nice results at 900 yards with various 155 grain bullets at/about 2900 fps MV's out of real long barrels.
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Sealesniper
Well-Known Member
Here are my $.02, and I understand you are looking for a target load.
Here goes.
The amount of time and money you will spend messing with a target load is a waste. Get the bullets you plan to hunt with, load and target shoot with them. You will then have first hand knowledge of the load you plan to hunt with. No worries of the wrong zero, the wrong dope, and you will build a sense of drop AND have confidence in the load. I used to shoot cheap military rounds out of my hunting AR, and then go to my main round to hunt. I got confused on my dopes and it was not comforting sitting on stand with the animal in sight, wondering if I had reset zero for my hunting round. My experience is this, find the load that works, buy all you can of the same lot for primers, powder, bullets and brass, and use them and know where that gun will shoot at all ranges. Your life will be SOOOOOO much simpler and you will save money in the long run.
If you want to try two loads, you can, but you will wish you had not.
Here goes.
The amount of time and money you will spend messing with a target load is a waste. Get the bullets you plan to hunt with, load and target shoot with them. You will then have first hand knowledge of the load you plan to hunt with. No worries of the wrong zero, the wrong dope, and you will build a sense of drop AND have confidence in the load. I used to shoot cheap military rounds out of my hunting AR, and then go to my main round to hunt. I got confused on my dopes and it was not comforting sitting on stand with the animal in sight, wondering if I had reset zero for my hunting round. My experience is this, find the load that works, buy all you can of the same lot for primers, powder, bullets and brass, and use them and know where that gun will shoot at all ranges. Your life will be SOOOOOO much simpler and you will save money in the long run.
If you want to try two loads, you can, but you will wish you had not.
Agreed! That's why I recommended #31; they have the same weight bullet design but different material - precisely designed for what the OP is what is trying to accomplish. I do not think he can do any better except to use the same bullet he will hunt with. We can only advise; however, he has the ultimate decision.
Dooner
Well-Known Member
FMJ's are not ideal for seeing impacts on steel beyond 600yrds. Even copper monos can be tough to visualize. You need the splat of lead on steel.
FMJ is still lead inside of a copper jacket.
Mono's definitely leave less of a signature but the issue isn't if you are hitting the steel it's when you miss that it's really hard to see them
Dooner
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I was thinking of military FMJ's. Do all FMJ's break apart when hitting steel at distance?
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
My self imposed limit for shooting deers & such is 400 yards. I think the difference between ELDM & ELDX or similar form factor bullets the ballistics are insignificant, provided the same velocity, out to 400.
The G7 form factor being the sectional density divided by the G7 BC. This would mean a .224 bullet and a .308 bullet having near equal Form Factors and equal muzzle velocity would have similar trajectories. For multi purpose use select a cheaper but equal quality bullet having a similar FF - this would apply for mid range use.
For my long range rodent shooting I only use ELDM bullets because of good value, accuracy, & terminal performance on small targets.
I regard FMJ bullets as being plinking types.
I shoot about 2500 rounds per year, about 50 per week. When I did the NRA match stuff I did over 3750 / yr, including shooting rodents, steel & NRA match.
Bullet costs were important. Other considerations were like how many deers could be shot in a year. The most I ever did was 3 deers. Bullet cost for deers was not important but I was not about to shoot some pricey hunting bullet at paper or steel. Comparing form factors was a good fix to select bullets.
Many bullets do not have published G7 BC values. The real nice econ. 168 .308 Hornady hpbt match bullet is an example. Hornady has their 4DOF ballistic calculator (a good read) that does not require G7 BC input but allows trajectory comparisons with other bullets.
For example - zero at 200, scope height 2.0" velocity 2550 (16 inch barrel) :
.308 165 H CX 400 drop 26", 400 TOF .56, 600 drop 96", 600 TOF .92
.308 168 hpbt 400 drop 25", 400 TOF .55 , 600 drop 91", 600 TOF .90
.308 168 ELDM 400 drop 25", 400 TOF .54 , 600 drop 89", 600 TOF .87
There will be minor differences, requiring individual zero sightings for each bullet. A data card attached to the rifle will help. Extreme range hunting with high accuracy demands and few bullets would require single bullet use - bullet cost be of no concern.
The G7 form factor being the sectional density divided by the G7 BC. This would mean a .224 bullet and a .308 bullet having near equal Form Factors and equal muzzle velocity would have similar trajectories. For multi purpose use select a cheaper but equal quality bullet having a similar FF - this would apply for mid range use.
For my long range rodent shooting I only use ELDM bullets because of good value, accuracy, & terminal performance on small targets.
I regard FMJ bullets as being plinking types.
I shoot about 2500 rounds per year, about 50 per week. When I did the NRA match stuff I did over 3750 / yr, including shooting rodents, steel & NRA match.
Bullet costs were important. Other considerations were like how many deers could be shot in a year. The most I ever did was 3 deers. Bullet cost for deers was not important but I was not about to shoot some pricey hunting bullet at paper or steel. Comparing form factors was a good fix to select bullets.
Many bullets do not have published G7 BC values. The real nice econ. 168 .308 Hornady hpbt match bullet is an example. Hornady has their 4DOF ballistic calculator (a good read) that does not require G7 BC input but allows trajectory comparisons with other bullets.
For example - zero at 200, scope height 2.0" velocity 2550 (16 inch barrel) :
.308 165 H CX 400 drop 26", 400 TOF .56, 600 drop 96", 600 TOF .92
.308 168 hpbt 400 drop 25", 400 TOF .55 , 600 drop 91", 600 TOF .90
.308 168 ELDM 400 drop 25", 400 TOF .54 , 600 drop 89", 600 TOF .87
There will be minor differences, requiring individual zero sightings for each bullet. A data card attached to the rifle will help. Extreme range hunting with high accuracy demands and few bullets would require single bullet use - bullet cost be of no concern.
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