I think I got hosed.

[rscott5028]

I have read this whole thread and I'm still confused. If the high pressure was caused by copper build up, then why did the factory ammo shoot just fine?

I'm wondering if perhaps what was perceived to be copper build up was actually brass from case necks being too long, and small shavings were pinched off by the projectile as it entered the bore. Under the heat from the friction/high pressure gases the brass shaving could be "melting" into the lands and grooves as it travels down the barrel. Copper and brass would certainly look the same through a scope if the brass was deposited in this manner.

Just speculating.

It's easy to measure.
But, more interesting to speculate.

 

[mtang45]

It's easy to measure.
But, more interesting to speculate.

Meaning what?

 

[rscott5028]

Meaning what?

Meaning that we're all eager to help each other out.

But without physical access, we can only speculate based on the information provided.

The OP needs to do the measuring as recommended several times. Perhaps he's already done that? But again... one can only speculate unless he chooses to tell us.

-- richard

 

[Prairie Dog50]

I have read this whole thread and I'm still confused. If the high pressure was caused by copper build up, then why did the factory ammo shoot just fine?

I'm wondering if perhaps what was perceived to be copper build up was actually brass from case necks being too long, and small shavings were pinched off by the projectile as it entered the bore. Under the heat from the friction/high pressure gases the brass shaving could be "melting" into the lands and grooves as it travels down the barrel. Copper and brass would certainly look the same through a scope if the brass was deposited in this manner.

Just speculating.

This is something I haven't thought about or ever even heard of for that matter. I havn't measured the cases yet, but I will do so tonight. All of the brass that we have shot up to this point, through this gun has only been shot and resized, at the most two times... I will find out when I measure tonight, but if it grows that much every time I shoot it: A it won't last as long as I want it to. And B, it will be a pain in the butt to do that much trimming.

 

[Prairie Dog50]

I sure don't have the answer. But, I'm just curious why that rifle seems to build up copper more so than your others.

- bullets
- throating
- bore dia
- bore finish

There should be a way to mitigate the effects and maintain your accuracy so that you're not spending all your time cleaning while your buddies are whacking pdogs.

-- richard

I agree, my gut instinct tells me that the copper build up is the symptom of a much bigger problem.

 

[Prairie Dog50]

I have read this whole thread and I'm still confused. If the high pressure was caused by copper build up, then why did the factory ammo shoot just fine?

I'm wondering if perhaps what was perceived to be copper build up was actually brass from case necks being too long, and small shavings were pinched off by the projectile as it entered the bore. Under the heat from the friction/high pressure gases the brass shaving could be "melting" into the lands and grooves as it travels down the barrel. Copper and brass would certainly look the same through a scope if the brass was deposited in this manner.

Just speculating.

mtang, this is the part of the whole equation that leaves me scratching my head, and wondering if I'm going to one day find myself in a coffin or emergency room because I never truly found the actual root of the problem.

 

[bigngreen]

Wow, what a cluster!!! I would use that barrel to hold up tomatoes or call Savage. If copper is generating all your issues I would think it would be great for a few shots then at some number start to show increasing signs of pressure as you shoot.

If your game, take a new case and put a small pieces of scotch tape on the back of the case and chamber it till the bolt won't close and do a home head space check. Each piece of tape is .002

 

[rscott5028]

Wow, what a cluster!!! I would use that barrel to hold up tomatoes or call Savage. If copper is generating all your issues I would think it would be great for a few shots then at some number start to show increasing signs of pressure as you shoot.

If your game, take a new case and put a small pieces of scotch tape on the back of the case and chamber it till the bolt won't close and do a home head space check. Each piece of tape is .002

If I read correctly, Shilen did a proper headspace check and said it's fine.

Factory ammo shoots fine. (although, it's unclear if that was with a clean or heavily copper fould barrel)

Handloads show excessive pressure. ...but, it's unclear if they've ever been trimmed or checked for trim length?

I have seen pressures rise when brass gets too long. But, I didn't shoot it enough to see if it would foul up the barrel excessively.

-- richard

 

[bigngreen]

If I read correctly, Shilen did a proper headspace check and said it's fine.

Factory ammo shoots fine. (although, it's unclear if that was with a clean or heavily copper fould barrel)

Handloads show excessive pressure. ...but, it's unclear if they've ever been trimmed or checked for trim length?

I have seen pressures rise when brass gets too long. But, I didn't shoot it enough to see if it would foul up the barrel excessively.

-- richard

The only thing that would still bug me about head space is that Smith #1 also checked it with the proper tools and came up with a different result, head space gauges just aren't that complex to operate!

Could the excessive copper be from the excessive speed that he was seeing and not the cause? I would have thought that even if Smith #2 didn't get a full cleaning that the first shot after that would have shown less pressure but it sounds like it was still maxed out.

My dad has one rifle that copper fouls and shoots very fast with min loads and the bore is tight.

 

[rscott5028]

The only thing that would still bug me about head space is that Smith #1 also checked it with the proper tools and came up with a different result, head space gauges just aren't that complex to operate!

Amen to that. They were designed to be a binary Go or No-Go operation.

-- richard