I have not seen any accuracy issues from stainless tumbling, but it is a pretty well known fact that the ultra clean necks do tend to be a bit "sticky" on bullets and can make your velocities more erratic. A previous post mentioned using graphite in his necks to try and put some of the "carbon" back. I have tried graphite, and it did help a little, however, what worked even better, and allows me to maintain single digit SD's and ES's in the teens if I wipe the thinnest film of imperial size wax on the bullets prior to seating. Bullets seat super easy, super consistent seating depths, etc. It works very well. I don't think this is a very well known process, but i doubt I invented it.
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I switched to Steel pin tumbling
- Thread starter crowsnest2002
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I have not seen any accuracy issues from stainless tumbling, but it is a pretty well known fact that the ultra clean necks do tend to be a bit "sticky" on bullets and can make your velocities more erratic. A previous post mentioned using graphite in his necks to try and put some of the "carbon" back. I have tried graphite, and it did help a little, however, what worked even better, and allows me to maintain single digit SD's and ES's in the teens if I wipe the thinnest film of imperial size wax on the bullets prior to seating. Bullets seat super easy, super consistent seating depths, etc. It works very well. I don't think this is a very well known process, but i doubt I invented it.
Copy that. Yeah I use dry neck lube also and maybe this is one of the reasons I have not noticed a spike in SDs occasionally.
crowsnest2002
Well-Known Member
Question, does leaving the brass in the solution for prolonged time have any effect? Is it just tumbling for extended time?
I posted about being too clean. However it was primarily noticed in a 1k BR comp gun. I got erratic ES and MV and it showed in groups albeit small but noticable when I switched to ss pins. In that game you cannot leave anything on the table. The dry lube cleared it up but messy. Went back to media for the comp brass. Problem solved for me. I am no longer running large amounts of comp brass routinely. Now just smaller amounts of hunting brass and never any range pickups where ss pins work like a champ. Most will not probably notice it in hunting guns and without a high quality arbor with force pressure measuring.
Pieter Willem Vorster
Well-Known Member
My DIY wet lumbler. n stead of stainless pins, I am using stainless ball berings (2 mm). Tartaric acid + 5 ml sunshine liquid (soap) in 1.5 liters hot water for 1 hour. Perfect!!
eshorebwhntr
Well-Known Member
My process is a little more involved I guess but it's what I found to work best.
I noticed after several firings on brass that the carbon buildup in the primer pockets would get sufficient and I was seeing SD creep a little but wasnt bad. I mainly hated the feeling seating them in that buildup. Dry tumbling wasn't cleaning this so I had to do it by hand which I hated.
Once I stated wet tumbling I noticed that with the super clean brass that the neck tension consistency upon seating the bullets was very inconsistent in feel. I never noticed a huge degradation in accuracy but never tested it thoroughly either.
So that led me to the process I'm doing now. Ive had good luck with it so far but I'm also not a high volume shooter. I do reload a lot for others. I would say around 200rds/month total. I also shoot mainly on weekends and reload through the week.
I deprime by hand with a Frankford Arsenal tool, inspect each case, hot water, Dawn, lemishine, 1.5hrs tumble in a Lyman tumbler with ss pins. If summer I dry outside in sun, if winter I place the cases over the heat register neck down in a mtm case divider I pulled out of an ammo case.
After dried I spray with hornady one shot, FL resize, and drop into a dry tumbler for several hrs. This gives me clean cases, clean primer pockets, and the small amount of dust from the dry media acts as dry neck lube and I have consistent seating pressure.
I'm sure this process isn't best for everyone but it's what works for me.
I noticed after several firings on brass that the carbon buildup in the primer pockets would get sufficient and I was seeing SD creep a little but wasnt bad. I mainly hated the feeling seating them in that buildup. Dry tumbling wasn't cleaning this so I had to do it by hand which I hated.
Once I stated wet tumbling I noticed that with the super clean brass that the neck tension consistency upon seating the bullets was very inconsistent in feel. I never noticed a huge degradation in accuracy but never tested it thoroughly either.
So that led me to the process I'm doing now. Ive had good luck with it so far but I'm also not a high volume shooter. I do reload a lot for others. I would say around 200rds/month total. I also shoot mainly on weekends and reload through the week.
I deprime by hand with a Frankford Arsenal tool, inspect each case, hot water, Dawn, lemishine, 1.5hrs tumble in a Lyman tumbler with ss pins. If summer I dry outside in sun, if winter I place the cases over the heat register neck down in a mtm case divider I pulled out of an ammo case.
After dried I spray with hornady one shot, FL resize, and drop into a dry tumbler for several hrs. This gives me clean cases, clean primer pockets, and the small amount of dust from the dry media acts as dry neck lube and I have consistent seating pressure.
I'm sure this process isn't best for everyone but it's what works for me.
rickjoty
Well-Known Member
I tumble until I'm ready to dry. If I leave the brass in the solution for an extended time after tumbling the brass starts to change color and I don't like it. It does not look like new anymore. I use K&M tools to treat the rims, inside and out.
bob4
Well-Known Member
I used to have a red media that was a mess and dust everywhere until I placed a garbage bag over the tumbler to control the dust. I never looked at the dust in the case necks as a benefit. Maybe I should have. Food for thought.
deadidarren
Well-Known Member
I pin tumble but decap before I tumble then neck size with a REDDING neck die and dip the case mouth in graphite for two reasons 1 so the die does not stretch the neck and 2 for trouble free seating , it works for me this group shot at 1026y
eshorebwhntr
Well-Known Member
I use to use that Lyman red treated walnut too. It was exceptionally dusty. The kernals always got lodged in the primer pockets and flash holes too.
I switched to Frankford Arsenal a few years back. It is less problematic.
bob4
Well-Known Member
Do you still get a dusted coating on the insides of the necks? And is it beneficial ?
eshorebwhntr
Well-Known Member
Yes. The Frankford still has dust associated with it.
Although I've never done a thorough test with definitive results to share I can tell you that bullet seating with that small amount of dust on the inside of the case neck does improve bullet seating consistency. Without it, straight from the wet tumbler, I could feel a big difference when seating the bullets from case to case. Plus the dry tumbler knocks of the case lube from resizing.
Although I've never done a thorough test with definitive results to share I can tell you that bullet seating with that small amount of dust on the inside of the case neck does improve bullet seating consistency. Without it, straight from the wet tumbler, I could feel a big difference when seating the bullets from case to case. Plus the dry tumbler knocks of the case lube from resizing.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/tuning-for-long-range.192998/
Alex really explains what the issue is with steel pin case cleaning for the extreme accuracy at 1k BR.
Alex really explains what the issue is with steel pin case cleaning for the extreme accuracy at 1k BR.
eshorebwhntr
Well-Known Member
A long thread but a good read. Thanks for sharing. Sort of reinforces what I was saying with the dry tumbler media dust working as an anti friction coating between the bullet and brass. Alex mainly discourages stainless pin cleaning because he thinks it is unnecessary and having a bare metal brass neck gripping a bare metal copper bullet is bad. I agree with both points.
I just want to reinforce what dictated my process.
1. I felt inconsistent primer seating due to carbon buildup was hurting my accuracy. I hated cleaning that carbon out of primer pockets (200-300/wk at times) by hand.
2. Once I went to cleaning cases with wet ss pins I noticed very inconsistent seating pressures. So that's why I altered the process.
For comparison I think the light carbon dust in the neck Alex recommends is achieving the same result as the light tumbler media dust I'm leaving...it reduces friction and makes it more consistent.
My process isn't for everyone, probably overkill. It's just what works for me and gets me results I want. I've got 1 rifle I load for that produces SD 1 and ES 3-4 regularly. That's an exceptionally good example but most achieve SD<10 and ES<15 with this process.
