I may of found where all of the primers went

[MontanaRifleman]

I dont know about this particular guy and i didn't see the add. Although this is America, making exhorbanent oportunistic profits off of your fellow shooters is not right IMHO. Primers have been a rare commodity for well over a year now, even before Obama was a front runner for election.

Someone on this forum bought up a few thousand Fed 215's and offered to share them with other members here at cost plus shipping and I took him up for 200. He didn't make anything on it and he helped his bud's out. Then a couple of months later, some primers came into SW and I decided to get 400 more (instead of cleaning off the shelf) which I figured I could get by with for a few months maybe a year if I had to. I did this so the next guy could get some.

IMO, if you are hoarding, you are thinking of no one but yourself and you are exasberating an already bad situation. In the words of an old son... take what you need and leave the rest....

Now I am not judging the individual or bussines which is the subject of this thread because i dont know all the details.... but if said individual is taking advantage of a situation, then I dont think that is right. Nothing wrong with making a profit, but when folks jack prices 300 or 400% to make a quick killing, that's sad.

I will remember who sold at opportunisitic and exhorbanent prices and who didn't, if and when supplies get back to normal.

JMO,

-MR

 

[Festus]

MR,

Well said. Couldn't agree more. Some folks seem to think, "I can, therefore I should".

Festus

 

[trueblue]

All good points made so far on this thread, but I would like to point out than even thou these primers are listed at high prices, alot of the sales are not taking place and they are not getting bids.
It seems that for the most part the majority of buyers are speaking and not supporting these actions. Free market system works everytime its tried. Wish the government would adopt that strategy.
I think trading components with others in your area might become more prevalent in the future.
I have some Federal 215GM in the midwest area if someone is in need.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

There are ways to solve problems and there are ways to solve problems.

If any of you over zealous and jealous primer guys jump on the phone and start calling the BATF, etc. Just for your information ... your primers still wont be on the shelf. Why don't you call ATK in Lewiston, Idaho and ask them where they are shipping all the primers. They only make a few million a week.

Call any large wholesaler and ask them how many backorders there are across the US. Attacking some guy on gunbroker will not solve this problem. If you guys would have had an ounce of prevention or preperation, you would have seen that Mr. O would get elected and as Americans have done since the 1700's, we will do anything to protect ourselves and our families. You should have bought primers before Nov. of 08 ... don't blame anybody else. Be responsible for your own actions.

Again ... as gun owners ... it is not your responsibility to take out your frustration on any other red blooded American who has more than you do. America is dying due to its own greed, don't be guilty of the same. I currently work in the firearms industry and understand that there is a little more to the story than what is being said here.

Cool off and THINK!

This is a great site ... but we do not need any attacks on one another at the moment. If the guy had 10 billion primers ... its his right ... for petes sake. This is still America.
This call the BATF and every other agency that we worry about ... just because someone has more primers than I do ... is the same mentality that is sweeping this Nation. This mentality ... You have ... so I want it. I for one ... want no part of socialism.

Please guys ... THINK ... THINK ... THINK!

I agree. This guy is not dictating the price of primers, nor does he have enough to cause a world wide shortage.

Steve

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I dont know about this particular guy and i didn't see the add. Although this is America, making exhorbanent oportunistic profits off of your fellow shooters is not right IMHO. Primers have been a rare commodity for well over a year now, even before Obama was a front runner for election.

Someone on this forum bought up a few thousand Fed 215's and offered to share them with other members here at cost plus shipping and I took him up for 200. He didn't make anything on it and he helped his bud's out. Then a couple of months later, some primers came into SW and I decided to get 400 more (instead of cleaning off the shelf) which I figured I could get by with for a few months maybe a year if I had to. I did this so the next guy could get some.

IMO, if you are hoarding, you are thinking of no one but yourself and you are exasberating an already bad situation. In the words of an old son... take what you need and leave the rest....

Now I am not judging the individual or bussines which is the subject of this thread because i dont know all the details.... but if said individual is taking advantage of a situation, then I dont think that is right. Nothing wrong with making a profit, but when folks jack prices 300 or 400% to make a quick killing, that's sad.

I will remember who sold at opportunisitic and exhorbanent prices and who didn't, if and when supplies get back to normal.

JMO,

-MR

So, I have to ask where you get your fuel? The price last year was more than double today's price, and triple what it was last winter.

The alternative is structured price on all products. No free enterprise. Can you say communism?

Steve

 

[JEREMY logan]

I can understand why everyone is so upset when people are selling primers at twice the price . Idon't think they should do that . As for the hoarding, reality is you have just a handful of people that want hoard when they have the money to buy. When things free up i will never have a primer/powder/bullet problem again

 

[MontanaRifleman]

So, I have to ask where you get your fuel? The price last year was more than double today's price, and triple what it was last winter.

The alternative is structured price on all products. No free enterprise. Can you say communism?

Steve

Maybe you misunderstand me Steve. I am not in favor of government(communism/socialism) intervention (unless some law has been broken) Anyone has the right in most cases to sell whatever they have for whatever they want to. But I think If someone who sells primers normally for $25-$30/1000 and is already making a profit on that, jacks up the price to $80/1000 because of a shortage situation, then that IMO is greed. One local store here, which I will not name, got some GMFed125M's in and almost double the normal selling price to $50/1000. Maybe their supplier jacked the price on them? I should probably ask, but if they were the ones that doubled the price, I think that's greed and I'll remember it. They have every legal right to sell those primers for whatever they want and I have every right not to buy my goods elsewhere. If all our components were doubled and trippled in price a lot of us wouldn't be able to afford to hand load. There are LRH memebers selling off their rifles because of tough times. When I see that and then I see someone trippling the price for components to make a killing it rubs me, but hey, that's just me. My opinion again is just because it's capitalism and just becasue it's legal doesn't make it right.

One of the strategies of the antis is to drive the cost of shooting so high through taxes and regualtions that it becomes unaffordable. Heck, they dont have to bother... we are doing it to ourselves.

I'm not sure why you're asking about gas because I think that is a prime example of what I am talking about, only to a worse degree. In that case I believe prices are being manipulated (not fair market capitalism) by greedy corps and oil producers. To some people on fixed incomes, those prices force them to make choices of which bills to pay and which not to pay. For me (a construction contractor) driving an F250 getting 12 mpg, gas prices are a big deal and in some cases it makes me uncompetitive and my business suffers.

Once again, I'm not talking about structuring prices. I'm just exercising my 1st Amendment right of free speech to point out greed when I see it. And I'll exercise my right to buy where I want. I'm in bussiness also to make a profit, and profit is what pays my bills and hopefully a little extra.

Just my $.02

 

[akhnaten]

britz,
Why are you upset. This is the capital system at work. First of all, we do not know when those primers were purchased. They could have been sitting on them for a long time, and saw the price increases, and started listing them at what ever the market will bare. This looks to me to be a business, selling marketable goods. I think there are better places to target our outrage. I chose not to support their business, but will not hold them in contempt for what they are doing either.

Price gouging is not the capitalist system at work. It is the failure of the capitalist system. In a truly capitalist system all markets would be perfectly competitive and gouging would be impossible. We have not had anything resembling a perfectly competitive market in the US since government lobbying got out of control. Also, price gouging is a felony in most states.
The real question is whether or not what is going on in the shooting community is an "emergency". It is certainly not an emergency in the sense that a hurricane is an emergency.
What is clear is that whatever is causing the shortage of components, it is killing the shooting sports. Particularly if the shortage continues for much longer. The only thing I can think of doing to help correct this problem is to:
1) not buy off the shelf ammo
2) buy components only from known, responsible retailers that are not price gouging and are rationing sales
3) not buy components at "auctions" or gun shows

 

[trueblue]

akhnaten,
I don't interpret the price increase to 50.00/1000 primers as price gouging. These suppliers have to replenish there supply for sale, and I am sure their replacement costs have gone up. I wonder if the same members on this site that are getting so upset over this, show the same emotion when the government continues to arbitrarily raise your taxes. Or do you just say, oh well. Bottom line is you all have free choice as to wether you buy them or don't. That is a free capital system. And hear we go again talking about illigal activity and felony behavior. Would be hard to prove when the whole industry is pricing things about the same. As I have stated before, alot of these internet sales are not transpiring, and that in and of itself will bring the listing prices down, if they don't have buyers. Give it time, it will work itself out.

 

[JEREMY logan]

Over on the 6mmbr.com website they have posted on their home page were someone bought 8 lbs of powder for $680.00 the total came to just over $700.00 after shiping charges were added.

 

[Forester]

Get over it, what would you pay for primers if you were all the way out? Going to let that $3000 custom rifle sit because you won't pay $80/1000 for primers? Jacked up prices will keep primers on the market for those in the worst need/want.

I was laid off when the buying frenzy really went crazy and could not justify the money at the time. Now I am on my feet and even in a better position than before so I am glad there are primers out there at some price. If I don't find any in the next few months I am probably going to pony up for a few thousand at whatever price I can get them

Also, don't put some arbitrary number on what constitutes hoarding. Prior to this year 25,000 primers (rifle and pistol) was just one years supply for me. As it is I have ~6000 on hand and am operating like I am just about out.

Those that saw this coming, and were able to stock up, more power to them. I wish I could have but I'm glad some folks are still able to make plenty of powder burn!

 

[Gettn2]

Over on the 6mmbr.com website they have posted on their home page were someone bought 8 lbs of powder for $680.00 the total came to just over $700.00 after shiping charges were added.

So P. T. Barnum was right after all. So what!

There are people that spend millions on a house or thousands on a wall tent.
There are people that spend thousands on a Ferrari and hundreds on a bike.
There are people that spend thousands on a boat and hundreds on tackle.

Let em ... this ain't Russia!

If you guys want someone to blame ... lets blame King George for creating a mentality in red blooded fighting Americans that you don't threaten us. Hence the slogan " Don't tread on me." So its King George's fault that before and after the election of our recent president that paranoia has risen to a new degree. Some still believe that history repeats itself and you won't change that by getting mad at what someone is selling primers for. You can't change the culture of our society ... let this run its course ... and hopefully one day it will get better.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Maybe you misunderstand me Steve. I am not in favor of government(communism/socialism) intervention (unless some law has been broken) Anyone has the right in most cases to sell whatever they have for whatever they want to. But I think If someone who sells primers normally for $25-$30/1000 and is already making a profit on that, jacks up the price to $80/1000 because of a shortage situation, then that IMO is greed. One local store here, which I will not name, got some GMFed125M's in and almost double the normal selling price to $50/1000. Maybe their supplier jacked the price on them? I should probably ask, but if they were the ones that doubled the price, I think that's greed and I'll remember it. They have every legal right to sell those primers for whatever they want and I have every right not to buy my goods elsewhere. If all our components were doubled and trippled in price a lot of us wouldn't be able to afford to hand load. There are LRH memebers selling off their rifles because of tough times. When I see that and then I see someone trippling the price for components to make a killing it rubs me, but hey, that's just me. My opinion again is just because it's capitalism and just becasue it's legal doesn't make it right.

One of the strategies of the antis is to drive the cost of shooting so high through taxes and regualtions that it becomes unaffordable. Heck, they dont have to bother... we are doing it to ourselves.

I'm not sure why you're asking about gas because I think that is a prime example of what I am talking about, only to a worse degree. In that case I believe prices are being manipulated (not fair market capitalism) by greedy corps and oil producers. To some people on fixed incomes, those prices force them to make choices of which bills to pay and which not to pay. For me (a construction contractor) driving an F250 getting 12 mpg, gas prices are a big deal and in some cases it makes me uncompetitive and my business suffers.

Once again, I'm not talking about structuring prices. I'm just exercising my 1st Amendment right of free speech to point out greed when I see it. And I'll exercise my right to buy where I want. I'm in bussiness also to make a profit, and profit is what pays my bills and hopefully a little extra.

Just my $.02

I think we agree. There are still other places to get the primers. From what I am hearing, these primers are not selling for the asking price. In my mind it is not price gouging unless the price is raised on and item that can't be lived without, or to take advantage of a need.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see the price of components go up any more than the next guy. Given where the market is today, anyone that pays that much for primers has more money than sense.

As for the fuel, there is no true competition in the market. The environmentalist policies that are in place do not allow the competiton to take place. If I had the money to build a refinery and enter the market, I could not, because of the regulations. The last thing we want to see is the market become regulated. Let this guy/business try to sell for what he can get. We all can make a decision weather or not to do business with him now or in the future.

Thanks for the discussion, Steve

 

[philny1]

Took a short ride this afternoon, just south of me in northern PA. Stopped at a couple gun shops. Depending upon what ya needed primers were plentiful enough. Now brass is another matter, its in very short supply. Powder selection was very limited. The shelves were well stocked with ammo at both shops.
North of me in the Buffalo-Rochester areas there are no primers to be had, plus powder and brass can be hard to find. Same with ammo.
Been hearing from a number of sources the military has been the big buyer, which makes sense. I sure shooters stocking up add to the problem. Something like when gas was in short supply, everyone kept their tanks topped off.
Many seem to think we'll see supply start to get back to normal by this fall.

Phil