I have an old Rem. Sportsman 78, .30-06

[scpaul]

Thanks, I'll look at ebay, sre they fairly common on ebay or is this an exception? Assuming that i load rounds comparable to factory or a little more, how many rounds can i expect to get out of a barrel? What twist are you using or are you using the std
factory twist? Isnt this the caliber that Rem brought out with too slow of twist, would it be labled 6mm or 244 (?) for the ones that have the slow twist?To everyone that's concerned about me trying to chamber and fire a 243 in a 6 mm I'm not going to try it. Thanks for all of the advice. Paul

 

[sable tireur]

From Gun Digest:

The 6mm Remington cartridge dimensions, and the .244 Remington cartridge dimensions, are exactly the same. However, rifles chambered for the cartridge and factory loaded ammo for each usually differ a bit.

The reason for this anomaly, at least to me it is an anomaly, makes an interesting story. Remington has done it at least once more that I'm aware of, and perhaps more than that. More later on this issue.

In 1955, both Remington and Winchester introduced similar 6mm cartridges to the marketplace. Winchester's version was the .243 Winchester, and Remington dubbed their version the .244 Remington. The two cartridges were quite similar. Winchester made theirs by necking down .308 cases to 6mm and chambered its Model 70 and Model 88 lever action rifles for the new cartridge.

Many other manufacturers began chambering for the cartridge shortly thereafter. Winchester developed the cartridge as a combination varmint round using lighter weight bullets, and a light deer/antelope rifle using 100 grain bullets. Winchester fitted their rifles with a 1:10 twist barrel, which would stabilize all bullet weights suitable for both purposes.

Remington, on the other hand, saw their .244 cartridge as a varmint/predator cartridge and discounted any demand for it as a deer/antelope rifle. Therefore they fitted their rifles with a 1:12 twist, perfect for the 80-90 grain bullet weights, but wouldn't always stabilize the 100 grain and heavier bullet weights that hunters wanted to use on deer and antelope. As the old adage goes, the rest is history. Winchester's .243 became a very popular cartridge and Remington's .244 almost withered on the vine, even though technically it offered slight advantages over the .243.

Remington finally saw the error of their ways and in 1963, they changed the twist from 1:12 to 1:9, which would stabilize all available 6mm bullet weights available on the market. Since they realized that the damage had already been done to the .244 Remington, they changed its name at that time to the 6mm Remington. With the head start of the .243, the 6mm Remington has never caught up with the popularity of Winchesters offering, but it has, as best I can tell, become a reasonably successful cartridge offering for Remington, as well it should.

 

[Bret GRAVELINE Graveline]

Well they are not terrible common, I was surprised to see the four listed, they are not as common as a 243 barrel which I think you will find a listing for one 360 days a year, while the 6MM you can go weeks or months to find one, the 244 and the 6MM are one in the same, early 244's had a 1-12 twist, while its twist rate was slower the the 243's 1-10 most it would indeed stabilize at least some 100 gr bullets, I believe the 244 fell victim to bad press, most likely started by winchester, shortly after its introduction remington changed the twist rate to 1-10 but the damage had been done, early remington 6MMs came with a 1-9 twist which by today's standars is considered slow, rugers 6MM's had the 1-10 twist, so this is what my original barrel and number 1 are/were, my 77 came to me used, but I rebarreled after over 6000 thousand rounds, this was before the days of top shelf bore cleaning chemicals and techniques, today I tend to think that old barrel still had some life left in it, i had a 17 rem that had over 8,400 rds down the bore before I could no longer keep 5 shots under 1 inch, the 17 is a lot harder on a barrel than a 6MM, today if I were to need to rebarrel either 6MM I'm not sure I'd change anything thing, the standard twist with good 90 to 100 gr bullets are fine with me, shooting the heavier 6MM bullets available to day is not going to turn it into a 338, if I can't get it done with a 100 gr bullets I'll use a bigger gun,

 

[OK hunter]

I began my deer hunting career with a LH Rem 788 in 6mm. I like the cartridge so much that I had a custom barrel built for my Blaser R8. I use the 7x57 mag insert and it feeds perfectly. I also have a MGM barrel for a T/C Encore that is a joy to carry & shoot. I really enjoy the cartridge and will always have a couple in my stable.

 

[GUNNNN]

JE Custom put out a Post years ago on Bolt Face Comparisions. I have it saved somewhere.

I miss JE Custom

 

[Buckys]

From Gun Digest:

The 6mm Remington cartridge dimensions, and the .244 Remington cartridge dimensions, are exactly the same. However, rifles chambered for the cartridge and factory loaded ammo for each usually differ a bit.

The reason for this anomaly, at least to me it is an anomaly, makes an interesting story. Remington has done it at least once more that I'm aware of, and perhaps more than that. More later on this issue.

In 1955, both Remington and Winchester introduced similar 6mm cartridges to the marketplace. Winchester's version was the .243 Winchester, and Remington dubbed their version the .244 Remington. The two cartridges were quite similar. Winchester made theirs by necking down .308 cases to 6mm and chambered its Model 70 and Model 88 lever action rifles for the new cartridge.

Many other manufacturers began chambering for the cartridge shortly thereafter. Winchester developed the cartridge as a combination varmint round using lighter weight bullets, and a light deer/antelope rifle using 100 grain bullets. Winchester fitted their rifles with a 1:10 twist barrel, which would stabilize all bullet weights suitable for both purposes.

Remington, on the other hand, saw their .244 cartridge as a varmint/predator cartridge and discounted any demand for it as a deer/antelope rifle. Therefore they fitted their rifles with a 1:12 twist, perfect for the 80-90 grain bullet weights, but wouldn't always stabilize the 100 grain and heavier bullet weights that hunters wanted to use on deer and antelope. As the old adage goes, the rest is history. Winchester's .243 became a very popular cartridge and Remington's .244 almost withered on the vine, even though technically it offered slight advantages over the .243.

Remington finally saw the error of their ways and in 1963, they changed the twist from 1:12 to 1:9, which would stabilize all available 6mm bullet weights available on the market. Since they realized that the damage had already been done to the .244 Remington, they changed its name at that time to the 6mm Remington. With the head start of the .243, the 6mm Remington has never caught up with the popularity of Winchesters offering, but it has, as best I can tell, become a reasonably successful cartridge offering for Remington, as well it should.

The 244 Remington was the first rifle I tried to hunt with after college (this would be the pre-google era of history). Ran down to the local sporting goods store and picked up a couple of boxes of 100 grain 6mm Remington and proceeded to convince myself that I could not accurately shoot a rifle to save my life. Many gunsmiths did not offer a solution and it wasn't until a couple years later that I came across this article and learned about barrel twist and bullet stability ...

 

[pavementends]

It's basically a 700 Adl with a cheap stock. I was wondering if it would be feasible to change it to a 6mm Rem? I haven't looked at the dimensions of the boltface. I'm more concerned about how it would feed having been an 06. If I did I'd probably look for a dessert used barrel since the feed thing and I've never been around a 6mm or a 243 very much. I don't remember firing either one. I'd rather the 6mm for the longer neck and could shoot 243 if I couldn't get 6mm.

As others have stated, 6mm Rem. is of the same family as 7x57 and 257 Roberts. 243 is the 308, 260, 358 win, 338 Fed family. All the 2 families share is head size.
You have done well to ask but please be careful. People get away with a great deal until they don't. You are dealing with very high pressures and the potential for injury. I have seen 300 Blackout fired in .223 rifles both with no damage and with a destroyed rifle.
Kind regards,
Pavementends

 

[scpaul]

Thanks everyone.

 

[randy86314]

It's basically a 700 Adl with a cheap stock. I was wondering if it would be feasible to change it to a 6mm Rem? I haven't looked at the dimensions of the boltface. I'm more concerned about how it would feed having been an 06. If I did I'd probably look for a dessert used barrel since the feed thing and I've never been around a 6mm or a 243 very much. I don't remember firing either one. I'd rather the 6mm for the longer neck and could shoot 243 if I couldn't get 6mm.

Yes. 788 has birch stock and says 788 on the receiver

 

[436]

Not a bad gun, just a cheap stock, I've seen a couple of them shoot pretty well for what they were. Just my 0.2 Cheers

 

[randy86314]

It's quite amazing what velocities are coming from cases less than 2 inches long, such as 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm Dasher, and so many more, which might could be too short for reliable feeding in your long action.
I've never heard of any real advantage to the long neck of the 6mmRem.

 

[scpaul]

Are the barrels marked .244 all slow twist and the ones marked 6mm Rem. all 9 or10 twist, or could I get a barrel marked 6mm with a 1 in 12 twist. Hopefully when they renamed it they didn't use any barrels with the slow twist. Is there any way to tell if it happens to be a 9" twist which I'd just love to do my conversion with, other than asking the seller to check. Probably alot of people aren't aware of the 9" twist, I wasn't.

 

[scpaul]

The longer neck is supposed to be easier to load the projectile straight in line with the bore. Of course they said the same thing about the 300 Wm. and I know that's bull. I'm thinking that it may affect bullet pull but even then I take it with a grain of salt. I've used the Lee crimper in the past to accomplish the same things, align the projectile and increase bullet pull.

 

[scpaul]

4, I bought it used with a scope for 200 and got a box of Rem. Corelock ammo with it. It looked fairly new. It always shot sub moa until it so many thousands of hot loads through it. It's old enough that the thing back then was to bed the action and barrel out almost to the end of the forearm.