I’m pretty new to this, and I have some questions

[APDDSN0864]

Your wasting your time calling this time of year, It's breeding season. Coyotes will ignore distress sounds, only have sex on their minds. In another month when the pups are born, pup in distress sounds work very well

Breeding season varies across the country, so it might not be the most productive for your circumstances, but others may have better success.
They will respond to howls and some other vocalizations during breeding season while generally ignoring prey distress sounds.
Never say never, particularly when it comes to coyotes!

Ed

 

[holechit]

"I've had two instances where I am covered in coyotes, with two different groups within 30 yards of me yipping and howling and carrying on, but can't get anyone to come in."

If they're within 30 yards they have come in. It is a matter of making a set where you have a clear field of fire and no dips or brush where they can be out of sight and that close without showing themselves.

Where I park the rig varies with the terrain. If flat I might ditch it in a dip or depression 1/2 mile or more away. If there are ridges or hills I will park it on the back side and go over the top or around to get on the other side of the rise to make the set. I'm very conscious of sounds of the rig and in or around the rig. Seatbelt and car keys-in-the-ignition warning buzzers/bells drive me nuts! A slammed car door (think naive hunting partners) pretty much blows the stand for me. Tire sounds on a well graveled road on a calm day can be heard many hundreds of yards away. The challenge is avoiding getting spotted, heard, or smelled before getting to the stand.

I try to hang the call on a fence or branch if possible. I have made an adapter from white PVC pipe & cap with a protruding bolt on top (to attach to the tripod port) that fits over the T-posts of barbed wire fencing. Otherwise I try to put the call on a visible area on a slight rise with its tripod. I do not use the decoy feature if the call is on a post or wire.

Thanks for the PVC pointer, I didn't think of that. My only complaint about the XWave is that its pretty big, which means harder to pack in and harder to stick in trees/bushes.

I'll tend to park my truck 1/4-1/2 mile away from where I plan on setting up. Definitely make an effort to be as quiet as possible, driving slow, braking slow, being careful getting gear out and closing doors, all that. I always hide my truck. Many times I try to set up 2-3 stands in an area, all stringing out further and further from my truck.

When those coyotes were 30 yards from me, I hadn't set up a stand yet. I was 100 yards from my truck, walking to where I wanted to go. the area was bottomland leading up to a river, creek nearby and heavy brushy cover all around. Tried calling them in with really mild calls, and slowly ramped it up to louder and more aggressive stuff. Heavy preference on coyote vocals. Nothing came in. Since it was dark by the end of my calling and past shooting hours, I walked back to the truck. As I do my usual lean against the truck bed and watch the stars come out ritual like I do every evening after shooting hours, the continued to carry on and seemed to be even closer. It was as if I wasn't there.

Welcome to the addiction!

A couple of questions for you and a few answers, one to a question you didn't ask.

First, what part of OK? The Arbuckle Mountains, the Panhandle, or somewhere in between? All will require slightly different techniques.
It sounds as if you're hunting in thick brush/cover if they're within 30 yards and you can't see them. That's shotgun territory and plan on fast shooting.
If the brush is thick, you may be tempted to turn your head, trying to locate them. You still have to move really slowly if you do that because you may not be able to make them out through the brush, but they don't need a full picture of you to hang up, all they need is movement that isn't consistent with a small prey creature being killed.
As Dave (DSheetz) mentioned, the amount of time spent on the stand has too many variables to give a set answer.
Typically, I am on the stand at least 20 minutes before I ever start calling, letting nature settle down. There are exceptions, but that is my standard.
I always park my vehicle in a hidden spot from my stand, and try to position it so any wind won't blow the odor of it into my calling pattern.
Learning the coyotes language is the best thing you can do.
Holwlers are great for more than just locating coyotes, a good one, such as Crit'r Calls "Song Dog" will give you the options for most vocalizations.
Simple mouse squeaks will gather more attention than you would expect.
Dying rabbit calls are used more often than any other and have educated more coyotes than any other sounds.
Like Dave, I didn't learn this overnight, but through many days, weeks, and years of trial and error.
A ton of bad judgment calls have given rise to much better judgment when it comes to calling coyotes.
I hope some of this is of use to you and any others lurking.
Best wishes for your success!

Ed

I'm located in central OK, but my coyote hunting so far has been out near Sandy Sanders/packsaddle on the far western edge of the state. I do want to go out to my favorite public land near atoka and the other near okmulgee, but haven't had the time yet. the okmulgee/bristow area is likely going to be my regular area, as its roughly the closest public land to me.

I like the sitting for 20 minutes idea, I find that's what works with getting myself acclimated to the area when squirrel hunting. After you sit perfectly still for 20 minutes you can start hearing the birds, get used to how the trees move, etc.
Ive been trying to pick stands where I have my back to something, wind in my face or a cross wind, and I try to make my "field of fire" narrow enough that I don't have to move my head to scan. Maybe 150 degrees or so.

suggestions for learning more about coyote vocalizations? I hear lots of guys say "I just use this and it works", but nothing about what a (for example) challenge bark sounds like, how to use it, and what it means. Or other sounds. my experience with coyote vocalizations so far has been less than technical, and I feel with something as complicated as a coyote it needs to be more so.

You can't be serious. Some great calling to be done this time of year. Matter of fact, probably my favorite time of year to call.

Learn to use vocals. I love it when I howl, they howl, I howl, they howl, and here they come. Get a group of 3, 4 coming and after the first shot goes off, hit some coyote fight sounds and hang on. Could be some fast and furious action.

Pointers on using vocals? I've gotten a few responses, but they don't end up with "conversations" per say, and nobody has ended up coming in because of them either.

 

[DSheetz]

I have explained some of the coyote vocalizations , what they sound like what it means ect . , in my area , in the coyote hunting tips and in the ramblings and such from hunting coyote as well as saying that when coyote are barking a lot and doing some short howls that are pretty high pitched they are mad , not comfortable , trying to get you to leave the area as they think you are invading their area . This is the time of the year when most coyote are already bred and are setting up a home range for denning . You will often have a female and a male in their area and a young female with them . She may or may not be bred but is there to help raise the new pups . A lot depends on how the prey base is if it's low then you will see lower numbers of pups so they probably won't have the extra female with them to feed . when it's a bad year for prey they will have a larger area so they can feed themselves and the pups . Coyote locator howls two howls lasting a few seconds then two barks then another howl . give it several minutes , up to 5 then repeat doing this for maybe 20 to 30 minutes all the while listening for a reply or them to show up . they will stop talking most times when they are coming in . You want to hear them so you have the wait between the calling . Challenge , two barks one short shrill howl repeated every 30 seconds or so , I've heard them do this for nearly an hour at times . Two short howls 2 or 3 seconds long then two barks usually in a higher pitch like a female or pups . Come here pups or parents here we are where are you we know that you should be back by now we've been good kids and waited for you to come and bring us some food . One long lone howl that is usually lower in pitch like an older male hello guys I'm coming home or when the pups are new hi honey I'm coming home so you can go get food and water , she answers with the same only it's higher in pitch and stays in one place his moves in closer to her and he tells her every couple of minutes where he is . In the fall and winter it is to get the others up and get together for a visit and or hunt . All of this is in the hunting coyote tips and the ramblings and such from hunting coyote . Most people just use what is on their E-caller and a lot of people haven't had the opportunity to explore the coyote language for themselves as it is very time consuming . I don't know how much educational material is out there with the E-callers but you might try to contact them and see what they can tell you about their versions of what they sell as their coyote vocalizations when , where and how they are suggesting they be used . My calls are used from shooting light till about 9 A.M. then again around 4 P.M. till dark except in the winter months . If it's cold and snowy it's from 10 A.M. till 3 or 4 P.M. There is no substitute for studying the coyote on your own I can tell you all of the basics but I can't make you a good hunter you have to do that for yourself . Time doing it and studying are the keys to that .

 

[APDDSN0864]

I have explained some of the coyote vocalizations , what they sound like what it means ect . , in my area , in the coyote hunting tips and in the ramblings and such from hunting coyote as well as saying that when coyote are barking a lot and doing some short howls that are pretty high pitched they are mad , not comfortable , trying to get you to leave the area as they think you are invading their area . This is the time of the year when most coyote are already bred and are setting up a home range for denning . You will often have a female and a male in their area and a young female with them . She may or may not be bred but is there to help raise the new pups . A lot depends on how the prey base is if it's low then you will see lower numbers of pups so they probably won't have the extra female with them to feed . when it's a bad year for prey they will have a larger area so they can feed themselves and the pups . Coyote locator howls two howls lasting a few seconds then two barks then another howl . give it several minutes , up to 5 then repeat doing this for maybe 20 to 30 minutes all the while listening for a reply or them to show up . they will stop talking most times when they are coming in . You want to hear them so you have the wait between the calling . Challenge , two barks one short shrill howl repeated every 30 seconds or so , I've heard them do this for nearly an hour at times . Two short howls 2 or 3 seconds long then two barks usually in a higher pitch like a female or pups . Come here pups or parents here we are where are you we know that you should be back by now we've been good kids and waited for you to come and bring us some food . One long lone howl that is usually lower in pitch like an older male hello guys I'm coming home or when the pups are new hi honey I'm coming home so you can go get food and water , she answers with the same only it's higher in pitch and stays in one place his moves in closer to her and he tells her every couple of minutes where he is . In the fall and winter it is to get the others up and get together for a visit and or hunt . All of this is in the hunting coyote tips and the ramblings and such from hunting coyote . Most people just use what is on their E-caller and a lot of people haven't had the opportunity to explore the coyote language for themselves as it is very time consuming . I don't know how much educational material is out there with the E-callers but you might try to contact them and see what they can tell you about their versions of what they sell as their coyote vocalizations when , where and how they are suggesting they be used . My calls are used from shooting light till about 9 A.M. then again around 4 P.M. till dark except in the winter months . If it's cold and snowy it's from 10 A.M. till 3 or 4 P.M. There is no substitute for studying the coyote on your own I can tell you all of the basics but I can't make you a good hunter you have to do that for yourself . Time doing it and studying are the keys to that .

Dave, I heard that exact Challenge call yesterday morning just after getting out of my truck on a ranch that I just started working.
The rancher has a trap (small pasture to gather cows in prior to penning them for various reasons) that has heavy grass and mesquite bushes on the north side.
He has an 8 month old Pyrenees/Anatolia cross that stays in the dogie pens to protect them.
I heard the Challenge call and looked over to see the dog staring into the brush and at least two coyotes trying to lure him into the brush.
A pack of Coyotes tore him up about a week ago and he learned quickly.
I couldn't get a shot at the Coyotes due to the calves and the brush.
The rancher's other dogs came running and ran the Coyotes off.
We've killed 14 coyotes in the last two weeks within a mile of those pens and haven't slowed them down.

Ed

 

[DSheetz]

I had to get the killers stopped but I still had time to let them teach me how to do it better and faster . I still to this day enjoy listening to what they have to tell me what better teacher can you ask for then the hunted you want to figure out .

 

[APDDSN0864]

I had to get the killers stopped but I still had time to let them teach me how to do it better and faster . I still to this day enjoy listening to what they have to tell me what better teacher can you ask for then the hunted you want to figure out .

You know you're really getting better at vocalizations when Coyotes readily answer you and walk right up to you with no hesitation.
I've been doing this for a few years and still consider myself talking in baby talk.

Ed

 

[DSheetz]

The learning never stops I just learned some of what they were saying but every bit of it helped and I enjoyed them talking to me and me talking to them as you do as well . To this day even though I don't have to kill them now I still have a passion when talking to them . Baby talk when it works is well and good isn't it and one of the ways we expand our knowledge .

 

[TRnCO]

't know how much educational material is out there with the E-callers but you might try to contact them and see what they can tell you about their versions of what they sell as their coyote vocalizations when , where and how they are suggesting they be used .

I'm unaware of any ecaller manufacturer with any such material, however, IMO it's a safe start for a beginner to start with simple long howls. I don't think a guy can really screw anything up using long howls, male or female, as it's not a threatening howl in any way. Some say don't over do it, a few howls and that's it. BUT I've howled for many minutes, off and on, and had coyotes come in. I don't just let the ecall go constant howling for several minutes. Instead, most howls have, to me, obvious breaking points where the coyote may end with a short bark or two. To me, that's a good spot to pause the sound as a lot of times coyote naturally end with a little bark at the end of their howls. So I let my ecall howl several times until the ecall comes to the point that the coyote ends with a bark or two, then I pause it. When you play with the howls on the ecall, you'll start to memorize the sound and know when to pause the sound, to make it seem as natural as possible, I like a series of howls that goes on for a minute or more but has at least a couple of natural breaks in it which makes it easy to pause it if need be.
Since there are several ecall's on the market and they all have different sound sources, it's hard to get any more detail then that. I use Luckyduck and really, IMO, think the vocals are second to none.