How to improve brass life

[J E Custom]

I have never annealed brass. It's just another arduous step that I'd like to avoid if possible. I use Lapua cases whenever possible but, unfortunately, I shoot a few cartridges that they don't make brass for. Sometimes Rem and Win cases just have to suffice.

I use Redding S type bushing dies and move the shoulders back about .001". Necks are sized minimally. I typically load on the high side of reliable book data but not beyond. I chronograph all loads and am careful to not exceed velocities that can be found in the books.

Overall, I get about 7-8 reloads (occasionally more) from my cases without annealing. I hope it stays that way.

This used to be the norm when brass was very cheep. I would use it and when I starter to see signs of failure, I just tossed it and bought more.

Now you may not be able to find some cartridge cases and need to make them last. annealing is the only way. the pressure is important and lower pressure will normally help. but at some point, annealing will/may be necessary. If you have and shoot a very common cartridge, you may never have to anneal. The Lapua brass Is some of the best and has a very good life. but other brands don't fair as well and may only give you 3 or 4 loadings without annealing.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Varmint Hunter]

This used to be the norm when brass was very cheep. I would use it and when I starter to see signs of failure, I just tossed it and bought more.

Now you may not be able to find some cartridge cases and need to make them last. annealing is the only way. the pressure is important and lower pressure will normally help. but at some point, annealing will/may be necessary. If you have and shoot a very common cartridge, you may never have to anneal. The Lapua brass Is some of the best and has a very good life. but other brands don't fair as well and may only give you 3 or 4 loadings without annealing.

J E CUSTOM

All true - Soft brass has been an occasional problem for me. Unfortunately, annealing won't cure that. I've got some new Federal cases that lasted only a couple of firings using the same loads my Win cases. . Velocity was about the same so I assume the pressure was similar too. Pockets got loose and I had to toss the brass.

Off topic a bit = What is clean, deprimed brass worth at the scrap yard?

 

[243winxb]

Bushing dies make necks last longer. 18 loadings so far. No annealing on winchester brass.

 

[Mikecr]

That's 8thou sizing per cycle x 18 cycles.
I would think the sized portion of your necks is hard as a diamond by now. Surprised they haven't cracked yet. With bullets expanding these necks 2thou, I would think your seating forces must be pretty high, and your tension very very high.

As long as the load likes this, it's ok I guess.
But that much change with reload cycles would mess with MY loads. My velocity would climb, my tune would disappear pretty early in it.

Given your scenario, I think most reloaders here would recommend process annealing here & there.
I don't like to do a lot of annealing myself, preferring to manage conditions where it isn't needed, but in your condition I would.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Amazing there's that much gap in factory cut chamber, .008 isn't as bad as most are but it explains why case necks split so quickly, great photo to prove what I always preach...bet it shoots better groups this way....I've seen some that are much bigger, looks like it was double tapered... I have some 22/250 casing hat have I'd bet 50+ reloading using this method, no movement, no wear and tear....you can even move it up more, mine are about a 1/3 of the other at these days..

 

[Mikecr]

Seems 'better' is very relative.

 

[Dano1]

J E Custom,

We must be thinking alike. I just bought an annealing machine. It is a relatively simple machine and I've been playing with it for a week now.

I recently used it on .243 Win cases that I've been loading for 15 years now and probably have 10 loads on some of them. (I like to have several hundred brass of a given cartridge if at all possible.) I rotate through them and it has helped minimize cartridge loss due to splits or case failures.

I realized that many of these cases were becoming severely work hardened and harder to size. I decided that it was important to start annealing and did some research into basic annealing. Most of the processes I saw seemed like consistency was a big issue. The only way I decided I could deal with that was with a machine. I found a good one that seems to serve my needs for $275.

One thing that really stands out to me is how much variation there is in the metalurgy (sp?) of diffrent brands of brass. And how each brand needs to be annealed diffrently.

I am currently going through my empties and annealing them first and then as a batch is fired, annealing them and placing them back into rotation as loaded rounds.

I own 3 Ackley cartridges and I also intend to anneal prior to fire-forming the cases. Especially with my 6.5-06 AI. This should help reduce shoulder splits that I have experienced as well.

As far as quality of brass is concerned. Federal just plain sucks. Primer pockets can loosen on the 3rd firing even if loads are light. Remington and Winchester are similar and generally good. Hornady is strong, but thicker and requires it's own load data. PMC is excellent and similar to Lapua. It anneals very well and looks just like fresh Lapua brass.

I generally use Lake City, and Lake City Match for my .30-06 AI and That stuff is very very strong. It anneals quite well.

I just wish there was a good way to tighten primer pockets. I've followed the "How to tighten primer pocket thread" seems like it would work, but It also seems hard to master. It would go a long way to salvaging brass if there was a simpler method to complete that task.

Dano

 

[J E Custom]

Dano 1

Sounds like you came to the same conclusions. Annealing is a time consuming process like many others we do when wanting the best loads and longevity of our brass.

I have used many different brands of brass some good and some bad, some soft and some hard. and Primer pockets seam to be the biggest problem and difficult to cure. The differences in case design, brass thickness and metallurgy can make a huge difference. Load intensity(Pressure) can ruin the best brass so I avoid high pressure loads (62,000 Psi +).

I sectioned a bunch of different brands and discovered lots of different designs and thicknesses
at the base of the case. I also used Lake city brass while match shooting for many years because the bases were thicker than commercial brands and seamed to hold up better. This brass would not hold as much powder and pressures were higher with the same load. (Another indication of thickness).

Finding good quality brass that last is getting tougher everyday and it has altered the way I treat my brass and the brands I look for.

I used to use commercial brass for lots of other rifles because of availability. I found several brands that were nor very good and some that were very good. Lapua brass was not available at the time
and DWM was the best there was. I had very good luck with Remington, but now that DWM cant be found and Lapua came on the scene it is hard to beat In my opinion and it is now my go to brass if they make it in the cartridge I need.

There are things that will help solve the loose primer problem. The bolt face "Must be flat" (Most factory rifles that I have blueprinted have a slightly concave bolt face) and when a case is fired it causes the case head to convex, this will open the primer pocket if loads are hot.

Thickness, Metallurgy and design of the case are the next thing that can make or break the longevity of the primer pockets. Annealing is just another step to improve the life of our brass.

PS: I came to the same conclusion on annealing you did. The old way I did it was not very consistent so I built my own machine.

Sorry for the long winded reply. just finishing my second cup of coffee.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Dano1]

J E Custom,

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your imput.

I find it interesting that the companies that are providing us with Brass are skipping steps to save a buck. I can understand the need to "tighten the belt" so to speak when running a business to keep it viable, but part of a companies goal should be to provide the best products possible. And where there is certainly a market for their product, they should be willing to please the customer by producing what they want and need.

I am frustrated that no end that companies like Remington aren't willing to support cartridges that they once and fairly recently introduced and then dropped from production in their rifles. Loaded ammo is available, with very limited options, but brass is non unavailable, Like the .260 Rem, 7mm STW, Several Ultra mags, etc.... Similar issues with Winchester like the .300WSM Ammo is available, but Win Brass???? Forget about it.

Yes the fustration is real for all of us. I just don't see any improvement from these companies, so we have to do what we do to make the brass we have last.

I have found that Annealing, When properly set up isn't that bad. And a good chore to do during the winter months. I find it relaxing too.

I also re-read my first post and what I meant by Remington and Winchester Brass being similar, was that those two brands were similar to each other, but both are better than Federal.

I too wish DWM Brass was available. Very superior stuff. Lapua is generally out of my price range to be able to buy large quantities, so I end up with the lesser stuff trying to make it last.

I not only use Military Brass for my .30-06 AI but I also Lake City/ Lake City Match .308 cases to form .243 AI Brass. I tend to stick with calibers that I can form from the most prolific cartridges, like the .308 and .30-06 Families. Seems smart to me. This learning to Anneal is making it easier to form from these cartridges, especially when necking down from the Parent case.

Thanks for listening to me ramble on.

Dano

 

[243winxb]

That's 8thou sizing per cycle x 18 cycles.
I would think the sized portion of your necks is hard as a diamond by now. Surprised they haven't cracked yet. With bullets expanding these necks 2thou, I would think your seating forces must be pretty high, and your tension very very high.

As long as the load likes this, it's ok I guess.
But that much change with reload cycles would mess with MY loads. My velocity would climb, my tune would disappear pretty early in it.

Given your scenario, I think most reloaders here would recommend process annealing here & there.
I don't like to do a lot of annealing myself, preferring to manage conditions where it isn't needed, but in your condition I would.

Some where in the cycle, i did go .001" smaller in bushing size, as neck tension got light. My test on 223, .002" gives 35 to 45 lbs bullet pull. Here is another in 30-06 , but not mine. I did a 45 acp test, using mixed brass.

 

[Mikecr]

Put this into your perspective and it will all hold different meaning:
-INTERFERENCE FIT IS NOT TENSION
-FRICTION (pull/seating force) IS NOT TENSION
-NECK TENSION IS SPRING BACK AGAINST THE BULLET (GRIP)
-SPRING BACK IS RARELY MORE THAN ~1THOU
-INTERFERENCE GREATER THAN~1THOU IS NO MORE THAN EXCESSIVE SIZING