How Much energy is too little?

[kgarrett]

Me? I expect my bullet to look like this hitting game.

View attachment 556800

Is that high muzzle velocity or kinetic energy?

 

[436]

On this one I think I'd have to go back to the Elmer Keith rule; Make a big hole front to back, let a lot of hot blood out and cold air in, cut, tear, and sever, arteries, capillaries, and veins. Crush, break, and punch bones, drop the blood pressure and win the day. It's the rule I pretty much lived by all my professional days, I still find it a good rule for all things that walk and talk, just be sure the caliber will handle it. Just my 0.2 Cheers.

 

[FEENIX]

I know that, but I do it on my calculator. Just like in school, honoring units!

It's that time ...

 

[southpa]

If i shot pewny little 6.5 bullets id probly claim energy didnt matter as well
Energy is literally defined as something ability to do work. Without energy, nothing does work. When your bullet hits an elk in the creamy white center, does it work? If so, than it was energy that made that possible. Without energy, non of your fancy, millennial, ground breaking, amazing, 20th century bullet designs would work. So to act like energy is irrelevant is absurd.

I refer to my bullet manufacturers minimum velocity requirements to work as it's designed and prefer 1100ish ft/lbs for deer and 1500ish ft/lbs for elk. Some combination of these numbers is usually where I shoot for.

 

[asd9055]

It's that time ...

View attachment 556819

Now I am jelaous

 

[std7mag]

223 has decent velocity.
But it's not the gun you grab for when a bear pokes it's head in your tent.

You guys do know that there is a hand gun section on this forum also, right??!!
And there is an excellent write up about hunting with mono bullets using hand guns on game up to and including elk.

 

[memtb]

Personally I'd never take that shot on an unwounded animal. In 45 years of elk killing and being around one heck of a lot of elk we've never had to take that shot!

Side note, I'm more than comfy if in that situation at that close or range of getting the bull take a peak back at me. If he did....then it'd be a Nosler under the ear and game over.

Way too many things can go wrong in trying Elmer's famous old "raking shot"......

Like I've said B4, at sooner or later the elk wins and I'm fine with that!

I don't and apparently haven't had the opportunities that you've had. It's a very simple very effective shot "IF" the hunter uses "enough" cartridge and the hunter places the bullet properly, using a bullet that will easily exit an elk in the aforementioned scenario.

I prefer "not" to take that shot, but if that's what's offered, and it appears to be the only offering…..I'll take it every time without hesitation!

I'll also "never" take a head shot on a game animal…..have seen that go bad a few times. A few times more than I ever want to see again.

I guess that we have different perspectives on shooting elk! No harm in that …..just different! memtb

 

[memtb]

YUP,. THAT'S, a 140 grain Hunting version Berger, Launched at, 3,200 FPS from,.. a .270 Wby or, .270 WSM !
Kill's Elk as, Quickly as,.. a .338 Win. Mag. ( Used Both on Elk, so I have, some experience at,.. THIS ! )
Agree with Dogz post # 84 ! No need of MORE, Recoil or, Power than, a fast, .270 Bullet.
A well "Expanded" Bullet, thru the Lungs,.. gets the Job,.. DONE !

Absolutely no argument here……. Provided it gets to the lungs!

I also agree, that looks like a Berger…..tremendous damage in a shallow area! Mostly a lot of smoke blowing! memtb

 

[Idaho Lefty]

@ memtb,.. My 140 gr. Berger, Classic Hunter, Bullet @ 3,173 ave FPS, went THROUGH,.. BOTH,.. Hides, Both Shoulder Blades, a LOT of Meat in between and, the Bullet's Base, was tangled in the Far side Hair, on my Bull ( Complete Penetration at, 115 Yards ) upper, Lungs,.. JELLO !
And,.. KaPow,... Hooves in Air,.. DRT, immediately !
Berger's Penetrate, BETTER THAN, most of, the "internet warrior's",.. know !

 

[memtb]

@ memtb,.. My 140 gr. Berger, Classic Hunter, Bullet @ 3,173 ave FPS, went THROUGH,.. BOTH,.. Hides, Both Shoulder Blades, a LOT of Meat in between and, the Bullet's Base, was tangled in the Far side Hair, on my Bull ( Complete Penetration at, 115 Yards ) upper, Lungs,.. JELLO !
And,.. KaPow,... Hooves in Air,.. DRT, immediately !
Berger's Penetrate, BETTER THAN, most of, the "internet warrior's",.. know !

You're correct about my knowledge of Bergers, only what I've read….by both the detractors and the worshipers!

I see them to be IMO to be similar to the ELD X bullets. I have done some shooting/testing of the 143 ELD X from a 6.5 Creed @ 30 yards. While my method was as not as scientific as some would prefer….I saw it's performance as abysmal when compared to another bullet shot into the same test medium at the same distance. memtb

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I learned about, the H-VLD and Classic Hunter, Bergers from, Bigngreen, a Montana Hunter ( who was on Here, several years, ago ) who has killed, a LOT of Elk with them, AFTER having, a Bad experience with, .270 cal. AccuBond's on, an Elk I shot, in Northern Az. at, 65 yd's s ( he was, Close ) the Bullet did NOT "Mushroom" very well, as still had, very HIGH Velocity at that range.
That Elk walked around for, what seemed like, 10 minutes ( Probably was, only a Minute, or, less, tho ! ) I almost shot him again,.. But, my son said, "Hold on, Dad, he's dead on his feet" then, he went Down.
Been using, Hunting Berger's, ever since !

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Years ago, back when, Bullets were kinda crappy, I was a Follower of, Elmer Kieth and I Hunted Elk with, a .338 Win. Mag. ( they Kill, at both ENDS )
Today, I'm more of, a Follower of Roy Weatherby, using Medium weight Bullets at, WARP Speed for Expansion and,.. SHOCK !
Hey,.. everybody needs to TEST what, they shoot and IF, it "Works" for them,.. STAY with,.. IT !
Sold that Rifle YEARS , ago BUT,.. still HAVE that, .338 Win Mag. "Flinch" every once in a While when, it shows,.. back up !!!

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

I would "much" prefer to use my 460 Smith with my wide metplat bullet starting @1500 mv on a sharply quartering (rear hip area to offside front quarter) elk @ 100 yards than the same shot with an expanding (not mono) bullet from .243 Win……assuming equal bullet placement.

A lot can be said for deep penetration……ft/lbs energy be "darned"! memtb

That bullet would still be going. WFNGC in my old Dan Wesson 445supermag was the same way. Those bullets just don't stop.

 

[Muddybuddy]

I don't and apparently haven't had the opportunities that you've had. It's a very simple very effective shot "IF" the hunter uses "enough" cartridge and the hunter places the bullet properly, using a bullet that will easily exit an elk in the aforementioned scenario.

I prefer "not" to take that shot, but if that's what's offered, and it appears to be the only offering…..I'll take it every time without hesitation!

I'll also "never" take a head shot on a game animal…..have seen that go bad a few times. A few times more than I ever want to see again.

I guess that we have different perspectives on shooting elk! No harm in that …..just different! memtb

Not many things stick with you more than a headshot gone wrong. Yowzers…

Saw one this year on an antelope. It was already hit and shooter was trying to put it out of its misery. He missed a couple of inches low. It wasn't pretty.