How many use “Old” Scopes?

[44ron85]

I like the looks of vintage scopes on vintage rifles, but not for use with long range shooting.

 

[Rum River]

I went on a kick collecting vintage German fixed powers for a while. Off the top of my head, I have...

2.5x Lisenfield
4x Zeiss
4x Kahles
4x Nickel
6x Zeiss
6x S&B
6x Swarovski
8x Kahles
8x Zeiss

All are German #1 and #4 reticle. They are all pretty amazing for their age, glass far better than modern day entry level, even from the couple 50s vintage. And they all still function perfectly. I have thought about selling some of them, but a few will never leave the rifles they are on.

A couple years back I bought an all-original 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine built in 1929. The 1903's are in caliber 6.5x54mm MS. On that carbine is an Oigee-Berlin fixed 4x scope with a German #1 reticle. The scope serial number puts it as being built somewhere in the 1931-1933 time frame. I haven't had the opportunity to check the clarity against the high-dollar scope brands, but have had multiple shooters compare it to Leupolds, Nikons, Weavers, etc. and they claim it's just as clear. That having been said, I'm not exposing that rifle to any high humidity if I can possibly avoid it. The detachable scope mounts were hand fitted in Austria and are serial numbered to the rifle.

 

[Monteria]

You could put the hubble telescope on the rifles that I put vintage scopes on, and it still wouldn't help you shoot 600yd.

That would make my 357 Herret, 30-30, etc. look pretty funny too.

 

[Rum River]

ZY, buried in your post is your question,

"I'm interested to know how many of you use (old scopes) for what you might consider "long range" (relative term)."

Most responses are focusing their responses on "owning old scopes" and not focusing their responses on "long range use" which is your question.

Studies have proven numerous times that we can not accurately judge distances past about 300 yds. That's a fact. Most don't consider 300 yds "long range." What has changed the long range shooting game and requirements for new scopes and new reticles is the laser rangefinder. In the past, the range was guessed and the shooter also guessed on how much to holdover. Both very bad practices. The laser rangefinder and ballistics applications now give the shooter an accurate range calculation so scopes needed to evolve to give the shooter an accurate reticle and accurate turret markings to match the accuracy of the laser rangefinder. Can you use an old reticled scope to shoot past 600yds, yes! Will you hit your target? Most likely, no! This is why you need to replace old scopes for LONG RANGE, not because you can still see something through them or they're pretty or nostalgic.

Bottomline, old scopes are not adequate for ethical long range hunting.

I have a pair of Leupold Vari-XIII 6.5-20x40's from Premier Reticle with the their Gen2 reticles which they were marketing way back when. I bought the scopes before Leupold and Premier went to court. They are mounted on my varmint rifles and have made multiple hits out past 500 yards.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just commenting there can be exceptions to the rule.

 

[JustMe2]

YZ, I used to use an old duplex reticle scope to shoot known long distance targets to 1000 yds. I removed the turret cap and used a coin to change the zero. I had a data card to tell me how many 1/4 inch MOAs to turn for every "known" target range. This was before laser rangefinders, laptop computers, cell phones, Kestrels, ballistic calculators, etc. I shot all the various distances before a match so I knew how many clicks to turn the coin/turret. It still was not as accurate as today's shooting of using ballistics apps that factor in weather, corriolis, spin drift, etc., we just knew through practice how much windage to guess. And it was a guess based on past shooting often under different environmental conditions -- so not as accurate as new scope reticles, turrets, portable weather stations, and ballistic calculations.

 

[skipglo]

1996 is considered "vintage"?
dang, guess I've got a lot of "vintage" gear then.

What is "antique "? I probably have some "antique " gear too

I thought it was bad when classic rock stations started playing 90"s music --,- that's not "classic rock" to me

It's okay OLD MAN..... grasp it with both hands and embrace it! ( a 56 model here...I know....it hurts!)

 

[JustMe2]

I have a pair of Leupold Vari-XIII 6.5-20x40's from Premier Reticle with the their Gen2 reticles which they were marketing way back when. I bought the scopes before Leupold and Premier went to court. They are mounted on my varmint rifles and have made multiple hits out past 500 yards.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just commenting there can be exceptions to the rule.

Yup you had one of the "new Gen 2" scope reticles and not an old duplex like in YZ's original post. My point exactly.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I had a 2-7 Redfield on a Ruger 44mag rifle that worked great. Well ...... at least right up to my Canadian bear hunt deep into the timber when a relentless rainstorm came through. That old scope fogged up so bad that you couldn't see a thing.

Fortunately, I brought a back-up rifle, as I normally do on an away-from-home hunting trip.

 

[Huntslow]

I have mostly "old" scopes and have no real reason to change them out. My longest big game shot was an elk at 440 yards. It was made ijust a few years ago with a Redfield 2X7 from the 1960's. I know it was 440 yards as I measured it with 2 laser rangefinders several years later. Here is an article by Wayne Van Zwoll that is very interesting: https://shoot-on.com/why-go-broke-for-a-scope/

 

[Straight Shooter]

YZ, buried in your post is your question,

"I'm interested to know how many of you use (old scopes) for what you might consider "long range" (relative term)."

Most responders are focusing their responses on "owning old scopes" and not focusing their responses on "long range use" which is your question.

Studies have proven numerous times that we can not accurately judge distances past about 300 yds. That's a fact. Most don't consider 300 yds "long range." What has changed the long range shooting game and requirements for new scopes and new reticles is the laser rangefinder. In the past, the range was guessed and the shooter also guessed on how much to holdover. Both very bad practices. The laser rangefinder and ballistics applications now give the shooter an accurate range calculation so scopes needed to evolve to give the shooter accurate reticle extensions and accurate turret markings to match the accuracy of the laser rangefinder. Can you use an old duplex reticled scope to shoot past 600yds, yes! Will you hit your target? Most likely, no! This is why you need to replace old scopes for LONG RANGE, not because you can still see something through them or they're pretty or nostalgic.

Bottomline, old scopes are not adequate for ethical long range hunting.

Tell that to the snipers that served in Vietnam.

 

[JustMe2]

Tell that to the snipers that served in Vietnam.

They also missed a lot of shots. Haven't you watched any movies or listened to Youtube sniper interviews? The sniper misses. I know snipers in Vietnam did not have a 100 percent kill ratio (one shot one kill). Don't believe the hype.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Sorry, I didn't know you were on hill 55 with Carlos Hathcock or Joseph Ward.

 

[JustMe2]

Sorry, I didn't know you were on hill 55 with Carlos Hathcock or Joseph Ward.

You really are delusional if you think all snipers kill on every shot. Even as late as Afghanistan with the latest technology, they often missed. They practice on the range I use and I watch them miss the steel often.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Never said they killed on every shot. Done with you.