How is this for a vertical string

[Terry Scott]

Have not checked your load data but looks like too light of loads

 

[Bullet bumper]

I probably should only shoot three shot groups. I suppose I just want that extra reassurance of consistency.

Just a firm grip that holds the butt in the shoulder and the stock down on the bag . You don't want the gun moving back too much as it just upsets the rear bag and teh bi-pod feet can dig in . Also if using a Harris bi-pod leg notch model make sure you do not have the feet sitting on the springs at the lowest position . This can cause high shots . Come up into the first notch and adjust the rear bag . Experiment a bit with the pressure of the grip and see what works best.
You will not get any reassurance with a 5 shot group if you are blowing the group with the 4th or fifth shot all the time .
Firing only three tests the rifle and load , firing 5 test you.
If you start with three shot groups it cuts out a lot of variables helping you get some consistency and tune a load then when you can consistently get a tight three shot move to firing more shots in a group .
Look I see Military and Police trained snipers that are not controlling recoil well at times . Stock design has a lot to do with it . Light guns are a pain .
If you move to the dirt make sure you load the bi-pod before each shot and don't put the bi-pod feet down on lumpy rocky spots .

 

[Machinist]

I will give it a shot. I am headed back to range on Friday I will shoot some three shot groups and post there targets.

Don't police snipers generally use a 308 Wincthemer as a standard? Is there actually bad recoil management with a 308? I love my 308 I can literally watch the bullet hit the target. Maybe the bigger magnums just exploit the weakness in your setup. While something like a 308 hides them.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Machinist....Long time no see. How you been? Did you ever get those Rem 700 titanium bolts underway?

Yes, most threat response units use the .308 Winchester as their sniper caliber of choice. Some use a .300 WinMag.

I love my .308 Win. It's the most fun caliber I have to shoot, other than the rimfires (.22LR and .17HMR). You can shoot a well-built heavy-barreled .308 all day and not be sore from the recoil the next day. Plus, experimenting with that caliber and different loads is tons of fun. Powder consumption is minimal, and I can load twice number of loads per # of powder, as I can with my big belted magnums. My largest load for my .308 uses 44.0gr of Varget, and most of my belted mags use 65-85gr of powder. Plus, the .308 is a very forgiving load when you first start reloading. It will shoot good seated at SAAMI spec, or touching the lands, or with a little jump inbetween.

 

[Machinist]

I think you might have me confused with someone else. None the less nice to meet you. Titanium action screws would have cool factor. The only thing I wonder about is titanium tends to have more flex than standard grade 5 bolts. If they are tight I can't see any noticeable effect they would have though.

My most accurate load was varget and 168 matchking. I had an Israeli mauser srewed in the barrel another turn and chambered with a tight neck match reamer it shot amazing. Then I sold it, have regretted it ever since. With peep sights I could hold 1 moa all day from field positions.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I think you might have me confused with someone else. None the less nice to meet you. Titanium action screws would have cool factor. The only thing I wonder about is titanium tends to have more flex than standard grade 5 bolts. If they are tight I can't see any noticeable effect they would have though.

My most accurate load was varget and 168 matchking. I had an Israeli mauser srewed in the barrel another turn and chambered with a tight neck match reamer it shot amazing. Then I sold it, have regretted it ever since. With peep sights I could hold 1 moa all day from field positions.

I might have you confused with someone else....I was talking about the actual bolt of a Remington 700....not the action screws. But, either way, my bad.

 

[Machinist]

No worry's a titanium bolt would be pretty awesome. That would not be to hard to do. Tell you what when the shop here reaches its slow time I will turn a bolt out of titanium and post it on the forum.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The other guy I was talking to about it, was gonna make me one of these out of Ti...For a 700 long-action with a standard bolt face for a project of mine. But I'm not sure where he went. Last time I talked with him he was machining custom prosphetic vertebrae and all kinds of high-end medical implants and surgical equipment. It's been a while though....I was pretty sure he went by the same username as you.

Found this picture online...This isn't my picture.

 

[Bullet bumper]

I will give it a shot. I am headed back to range on Friday I will shoot some three shot groups and post there targets.

Don't police snipers generally use a 308 Wincthemer as a standard? Is there actually bad recoil management with a 308? I love my 308 I can literally watch the bullet hit the target. Maybe the bigger magnums just exploit the weakness in your setup. While something like a 308 hides them.

308W is fairly common but some Police would also have the 338LM or similar as an option in certain circumstances .
I know a few people that can't handle the 308W properly because of bad technique .
The bigger the recoil the more flexing that goes on and the more movement of the gun backwards that upsets the position for the next shot .
Just because a certain person can tolerate a certain recoil does not mean they are adequately controlling it . That's two different things.
People say " that recoil does not worry me " but are they getting the accuracy they should ?
It's a trade off , if you want good long range ballistics using heavy bullets then the extra recoil is inevitable , in the lighter guns anyway .
Make the gun much heavier and it soaks up some recoil .
I think you are on the right track now to start perfecting your style so you shoot the same each time . Take your time firing the first shot , watch the wind and work out if you are going to fire when the wind is gone or when the wind is consistent in speed and direction , so that the first cold bore shot is right on the money . Then deliver the next two shots with the same wind condition and hold . Be patient and wait until you get the same wind condition even if it takes quite a while . I will be surprised if you don't get a tighter 3 shot group than before .
Watch the wind and when you see the right condition approaching take a breath just before you are ready to shoot . Exhale half and hold , tweak the cross hairs again and gently squeeze the trigger using the pad of the index finger not the joint . Make sure only the finger moves at it's joints not the whole hand . If the wind does not cooperate or suddenly changes back off the trigger and start again . It needs to be slow at the start so your brain can process all the required moves and develop a muscle memory. When people rush their training they don't develop the correct muscle memory in their brain . In time you will be able to produce it all without even thinking and then it all happens faster .
When you post a picture of a group make sure you mark the shots in order and if the first was a cold bore shot , the range and what wind condition .
If you find your cold bore shot is off after cleaning the barrel you will have to fire a fouling shot or two and then let it cool down before you start group shooting. Sniping is a bit different to group shooting in most circumstances . In sniping you are mostly trying to deliver that first cold bore shot on target each time not so much the following shots but there is still many circumstances that you will want to fire more than one accurate shot on multiple targets or when trying to walk the POI onto a target which is the way it mostly happens at extreme ranges.
So a good sniper rifle has to have both capabilities , accurate cold bore shot and put the rest of the shots close by that , in addition to hold it's zero in extreme climates and a bunch of other traits .
Thankfully many fairly cheap modern sporting firearms are also capable of good accuracy .

 

[Machinist]

I do agree there is a big difference between taking the abuse of a rifle and controlling the recoil in a repeatable manner.

I have done enough cold bore shots to get them in a 1 moa group. My rifle will throw them 1/2 min high and a 1/2 minute right out to 400 yards I have not done enough testing beyond that to have confidence in hitting my mark.

Thanks for all the help, I think this thread is done. I will keep updating my targets as soon as I am able to shoot again. Unfortunately today at work I dropped a 100 pound 6 jaw 12 inch chuck on my index finger. It only fell a few inches but man that was all it needed to ruin my day. Turned my finger into hamburger. It isn't broken but man it looks pretty nasty. The doctor almost stitched it but the blowout ran on the inside crease of the finger. He finally just threw some butterfly bandages on it and splinted it told me take it off in two weeks.

 

[Bullet bumper]

I do agree there is a big difference between taking the abuse of a rifle and controlling the recoil in a repeatable manner.

I have done enough cold bore shots to get them in a 1 moa group. My rifle will throw them 1/2 min high and a 1/2 minute right out to 400 yards I have not done enough testing beyond that to have confidence in hitting my mark.

Thanks for all the help, I think this thread is done. I will keep updating my targets as soon as I am able to shoot again. Unfortunately today at work I dropped a 100 pound 6 jaw 12 inch chuck on my index finger. It only fell a few inches but man that was all it needed to ruin my day. Turned my finger into hamburger. It isn't broken but man it looks pretty nasty. The doctor almost stitched it but the blowout ran on the inside crease of the finger. He finally just threw some butterfly bandages on it and splinted it told me take it off in two weeks.

That is bad luck indeed . I always put a bar through my big chucks when moving them and place them down , side on , between some wedges or on the padded veeways . Wish I could afford a 6 jaw .
Hope it heals up ok. Not sure I would leave it uninspected for two weeks though .

 

[Machinist]

I am certainly going to look at it every few days. The Chuck was for a fourth axis someone crashed into it at full Rapid so I was not ecstatic about tearing it apart in the first place. I was in a hurry to get it back up and running. I normally use the overhead Crane it is overkill but safer. Tore it apart got it back together and I put it on. I realized I was 120 degrees off. Took the strap off figured I would just push it at turn it by hand to save some time... Needless to say it slipped off the mounting plate just as I was about to thread in the first bolt.

I do have a 17 hmr with a hair trigger I might be able to shoot that on Sunday.

 

[Shootin4fun]

3 Exhale half and hold , tweak the cross hairs again and gently squeeze the trigger using the pad of the index finger not the joint . Make sure only the finger moves at it's joints not the whole hand . If the wind does not cooperate or suddenly changes back off the trigger and start again . ...

If you find your cold bore shot is off after cleaning the barrel you will have to fire a fouling shot or two and then let it cool down before you start group shooting. Sniping is a bit different to group shooting in most circumstances .

In sniping you are mostly trying to deliver that first cold bore shot on target each time not so much the following shots but there is still many circumstances that you will want to fire more than one accurate shot on multiple targets or when trying to walk the POI onto a target which is the way it mostly happens at extreme ranges.


So a good sniper rifle has to have both capabilities , accurate cold bore shot and put the rest of the shots close by that , in addition to hold it's zero in extreme climates and a bunch of other traits .
Thankfully many fairly cheap modern sporting firearms are also capable of good accuracy .

A lot of good points in this thread that I have come across during the course of trying to develop accurate loads...all important considerations.

First shots, etc...
Now, there's a difference in a "cold bore" and a "clean bore" and even a "clean bore" and a "fully decoppered bore". And this is especially important for any situation where the first shot counts big; for most of us that means hunting.

Always shooting from a cold barrel or barely warm seems to produce tighter groups, from sporter a barrel anyway. So I usually take 2 shots maybe a minute apart, then wait however long it takes to get the barrel down to the same temp as the first of those 2. I always note the order of shots on targets. Always looking for patterns.

After reading several posts on the subject and talking to shooters, I've been experimenting with not decoppering the barrel very often but only doing light cleanings to get powder fouling out between visits to the range. This has resulted in more predictable...meaning same POI as last time out...first shots. If I don't clean the barrel out at all, the first shot POI is the same, given air temp and other conditions the same... I hit within .1 or .2 MOA of the expected POI on the first shot if I do my part. After that, the bore is not "cold" and next 2 are often within .2 MOA of that.

We have been discussing the idea that a stasis is reached with copper fouling, meaning that after a certain number of rounds, copper is no longer building up thicker in the barrel. I can't measure it physically, but judging by chrono and initial shots' POI on targets does seem to be support for that idea. After a complete decoppering, the first several rounds chrono lower velocities by as much as 40+fps.

Back to stringing...
Breathing! I was taught the same "let half the air out, pause, final targeting, squeeze". Last year, talking about vertical stringing, a guy at the range who said he had military sniper training told me to let the whole breath out and relax before squeezing. That's the first time I heard that. Has anyone else heard that method?

Bore temp. - discussed above.

All of the advice on holding and the mount/rest is great, thanks for detailing, and there's more in that accurateshooter article. But 1 thing that was mentioned in another thread here is, somone said that if you're using a bipod, there should be something under it to dampen the vibrations or bounce if its on an otherwise hard surface. So lately I've put a sweatshirt or folded towel under the bipod and I think it might have helped. Any thoughts on this?